Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

[POI]

Seems there exists an unresolved topic amongst Christians... Seems as though the way to salvation is not unified among the many in which I engage. I'd wager they all have a case to support their position(s).?.?

For debate: How does one get to Heaven? What is God's criteria for His selection process? Is it by grace alone, belief/faith alone, works alone; or it is a combination of the three? Or is it maybe other? Please, not only present your case, but please also explain why the other asserted methods are incorrect.

[POI]

Status update -- (augmented from post 329):

A) unconditional grace --> all are saved
B) conditional grace --> by the topic of (faith/belief)
C) conditional grace --> by the topic of (works)
D) B & C
E) No one receives salvation, because no one is worthy

If you opt for an option F), please clarify? And please make sure it would not actually involve the categories/topics of B) and C).

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Post #11 JW states "the Bible translates itself". (My last response) - Great. Then the answer should be direct and simple, provided one is literate. Is the answer A), B), C), D), or E); and why?

Post #27. Eloi states "I have no time to answer all your questions". (My last response) - This is when I merely asked direct follow up questions to his response (i.e.):

1. Is baptism required? (yes or no)
2. By default, at birth or before natural birth, are humans deemed "righteous" or "unrighteous"? (righteous or unrighteous)
3. Must a person be free from all the said above to achieve salvation? (yes or no)

He apparently, all of a sudden, "has no time" to answer 3 (one-word-answer) questions? Which begs the question... But he has time to answer others in this thread there-after?.?.?.?

Post #49. Bjs1 alludes to 'morals' being irrelevant to salvation. My follow up question remains:

If everyone, for which He selects is undeserving of His selection, and the elected are the ones which will accept it, does this mean 'morals' are irrelevant?

Post# 151. Tam claims I'm trying to somehow 'pigeon-hole' His message about salvation, or demonstrate 'contradiction' in His messages about achieving salvation, when there is not really any.... However, through our exchange, I have happily conveyed that God is clear and direct when He wants to be about many topics --- whether it be about His stance on homosexuality, theft, trespassing, murder, men > women, etc etc etc.... If I was to ask any Christian about what His stance/position would be about many topics, the answer would be unified. However, where the Bible and the topic of salvation is concerned, NOT-SO-MUCH?

Post #236. kjw47 is sticking to answer D). He then attempts to rationalize 'Jesus telling people to give up everything'. (S))he then asserts that the ones who do not possess all their facilities, get judged accordingly. And yet, after repeated attempts to explore, is unable to produce where the Bible says so.

Post #239. DJT_47 states it's both B) and C). When asked a basic followup question, about dying before achieving B) and C), what happens to these folks? (S)he never answers.

Post 321. AFG stated answer D). And if all are not fulfilled, because you died on earth too soon, you still have "Purgatory" to get your ducks in order.

Post 349. 1213 May soon be committing to answer B)?

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Starting anew.... Christians, how does one achieve salvation?

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to POI in post #370]

It is something you have yet to try. You should try it.

[POI]

[Replying to POI in post #370]

It is something you have yet to try. You should try it.

Let's remain focused here. I created a new thread dedicated to your claim. However, I have yet to see anyone want to take on this claim. HINT: Maybe because they are all a <dime a dozen>? Just like the countless other suggestions, for which I have already tried from theists?

But getting back here, seems like you are selecting option D) for salvation?

[POI]

Refer to post 371 to see where this thread has left off...

Christians, how exactly does one achieve salvation?

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to POI in post #370]

It is something you have yet to try. You should try it.

That's a blatant attempt to brainwash someone rather than provide a reasoned argument. It is often the last resort (apart from running away with a shouted insult) to invite the Mark to kneel and pray and brainwash themselves into Faith. How about you try to give an atom of consideration to all the times your arguments have been trashed (cue denial of everything ) or why don't I invite you to sit cross legged for a week (2 hours morning and evening) and meditating and then you will see the truth of Buddhism, or spin around like a top with a Fez on or sit huffing "Wah" for an hour and you'll experience Allah. For that matter set Faith aside and try evidence and reason.

And if we did the Rosary trick (Rosary indeed, want me to kiss the feet of a plaster statue of the Queen of heaven? You victim of the Vatican ) and it had no effect, you'd use the failed seance excuse 'You were not really believing'. I don't know whether you seriously intend that scam or flam as a serious test or just an excuse to twit atheists as refusing to really investigate the matter, but it really just shows up how awful Christian polemics is.

[POI]

Christians, what is the answer? How is one saved?

a) unconditional grace, (all are already saved).
b) conditional grace, (achieved by belief/faith alone)
c) conditional grace, (achieved by works alone)
d) some necessary combo of both b) and c), (but to what degree of each?)
e) none are saved, no one is worthy; but thanks for trying
f) other?

Please furnish an answer and also explain why the other given options are wrong. If one truly understands the Bible, this question should be easy and straight forward to answer.

[TRANSPONDER]

I'm no Christian, but I'm wearing the hat. It keeps asking me which denomination I want to be sorted into.

"Other". It's actually 2, Belief is what does it. Not works. Good Works get nothing for you, other than of course Not doing the Bad works that can lose you salvation, assuming you got it, which isn't guaranteed.

Because that is an Axiomatic elephant in the room. There is no guarantee. Sure Belief is taken as getting you grace (assuming one has the right denomination, or you might as well be be a Tantric Buddhist for all the salvation it will get you) but there are no Guarantees. It isn't like pressing the buttons in the right order and getting a peanut. You hope you got order right, keep pressing them and hope for a peanut after you die.

How I envy the Faithful such Meaning in their lives.

[1213]

Christians, what is the answer? How is one saved?

a) unconditional grace, (all are already saved).
b) conditional grace, (achieved by belief/faith alone)
c) conditional grace, (achieved by works alone)
d) some necessary combo of both b) and c), (but to what degree of each?)
e) none are saved, no one is worthy; but thanks for trying
f) other?

Please furnish an answer and also explain why the other given options are wrong. If one truly understands the Bible, this question should be easy and straight forward to answer.

This depends on what "saved" means. If it means person is saved from the judgment/death that would come because of sin, it is entirely by God's mercy, without any conditions or works. That forgiveness is offered freely for everyone.

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is everlasting life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

If person is saved and his sins are forgiven, then, as Jesus says, person should not sin anymore.

After these things, Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, Behold, you have become well, sin no more that a worse thing not happen to you.
John 5:14

Forgiveness is not useful, if person continues in sin and doesn't become righteous, because eternal life is promised only for righteous.

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.
Matt. 25:46

Forgiveness gives a new start. If person continues after that in a wrong path, forgiveness is not useful. It is like cleaning a car and then messing it with mud right after that. This is why Jesus said there must happen this change in person.

Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, if one does not receive birth from above, he is not able to see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus said to Him, How is a man able to be born, being old? He is not able to enter into his mother's womb a second time and be born? Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, if one does not receive birth out of water and Spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God. That receiving birth from the flesh is flesh, and that receiving birth from the Spirit is spirit. Do not wonder because I told you, You must receive birth from above.
Joh. 3:3-7

But as many as received Him, to them He gave authority to become children of God, to the ones believing into His name, who were born not of bloods, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but were born of God.
Joh. 1:12-13

It is the Spirit that gives life. The flesh does not profit, nothing! The words which I speak to you are spirit and are life.
Joh. 6:63

When person is born of God, he becomes righteous. And if person is righteous, it will also show in his actions.

Little children, let no one lead you astray; the one practicing righteousness is righteous, even as that One is righteous. The one practicing sin is of the Devil, because the Devil sins from the beginning. For this the Son of God was revealed, that He undo the works of the Devil. Everyone who has been begotten of God does not sin, because His seed abides in him, and he is not able to sin, because he has been born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the Devil are revealed: Everyone not practicing righteousness is not of God; also the one not loving his brother.
1 Joh. 3:7-10

This means, there is unconditional forgiveness for all. But, to get eternal life, one must be righteous. And if person is righteous, it comes visible also in his actions and words.

[TRANSPONDER]

Aside the verbiage backed up with irrelevant Biblequotes, what this boils down to is a sham and a swindle. Specifically, it claim that abolition of sin and salvation is for all. But clearly it isn't. Only for the 'Righteous'. And the sham, scam and swindle is pretending this is good behaviour, and the pretence that becoming a Christian makes one behave well is at best a false claim and gets breathlessly near hate speech (non Christian are by definition, not going to be good people).

That is the only way you can try to avoid the evident and obvious claim (once pointed out) that 'Righteous' means belonging to the correct religious elite group. Trying to wangle that to make belonging to the right party group makes one a Good person (as well as 'Righteous' through carrying the right party card) just makes the religious snobbery and elitism look even worse.

I think it needs pointing out, as centuries of religious propaganda have made people think that religious posing is good and praiseworthy, but once they have it explained to them, I believe they will see clearly how they were fooled. And they won't like it any more than I do.

[POI]

Christians, what is the answer? How is one saved?

a) unconditional grace, (all are already saved).
b) conditional grace, (achieved by belief/faith alone)
c) conditional grace, (achieved by works alone)
d) some necessary combo of both b) and c), (but to what degree of each?)
e) none are saved, no one is worthy; but thanks for trying
f) other?

Please furnish an answer and also explain why the other given options are wrong. If one truly understands the Bible, this question should be easy and straight forward to answer.

This depends on what "saved" means.

1) Go to Heaven forever
2) Don't go to Heaven forever

If person is saved and his sins are forgiven, then, as Jesus says, person should not sin anymore.

After these things, Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, Behold, you have become well, sin no more that a worse thing not happen to you.
John 5:14

Forgiveness is not useful, if person continues in sin and doesn't become righteous, because eternal life is promised only for righteous.

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.
Matt. 25:46

Forgiveness gives a new start. If person continues after that in a wrong path, forgiveness is not useful. It is like cleaning a car and then messing it with mud right after that. This is why Jesus said there must happen this change in person.

We've been all over this. 'Righteousness" is synonymous with "faithfulness". Please see where this conversation left off, in post 346 - 349.

to get eternal life, one must be righteous. And if person is righteous, it comes visible also in his actions and words.

Since righteousness is the same as faithfulness, your answer is b)?