Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

[POI]

Seems there exists an unresolved topic amongst Christians... Seems as though the way to salvation is not unified among the many in which I engage. I'd wager they all have a case to support their position(s).?.?

For debate: How does one get to Heaven? What is God's criteria for His selection process? Is it by grace alone, belief/faith alone, works alone; or it is a combination of the three? Or is it maybe other? Please, not only present your case, but please also explain why the other asserted methods are incorrect.

[1213]

If the sun wasn't made yet, that some other light source has to switch off and on to imitate day and night, ok?

Yes, that I have been saying.

Trust me, you have no mechanism for this.

The same mechanism that causes sun to “switch off and on”.

[TRANSPONDER]

If the sun wasn't made yet, that some other light source has to switch off and on to imitate day and night, ok?

Yes, that I have been saying.

Trust me, you have no mechanism for this.

The same mechanism that causes sun to “switch off and on”.

Then we are in the position of science denial. You have tried to escape doing that with the flat earth trying to pass it off as a scribes (flat) circles but made on a round earth. Because you would prefer not to look silly by claiming the earth is flat.

I can only put it to the readers and browsers (as you simply deny everything) that Genesis says nothing to show that the day and night, morning and evening of the First day (Genesis 1 says all that) was a cosmic light that switched on and off (you have no mechanism, well ok) to imitate day and night before the sun was made. This is as much science - denial (of the way the solar system formed) as if you believed and argued for a flat earth

I must point out that other creationists excuse this by claiming the sun was made first but it wasn't seen until the fourth day, owing to cloud or ice -cover. Thus it is only the lesser problem of why God wouln't have said so instead of giving Moses false information.

cue: denial of everything. But as usual, it is pointing to anyone who has believethed the Bible and the creationist claims up to now but still had their mind a bit open, to see that the best explanation is that the writer of the creation believed in the old Babylonian flat earth and sky dome, and supposed that day and night indeed switched on and off and the start planets, sun and moon were made later as signs in the sky trundling around the inside of the sky - dome.

Trying to fiddle the Bible to fit science really doesn't work, and it has really pushed you into science denial. Wrll it is a choice any Bible apologist has to make - deny the science or deny that genesis is literally true and make it a metaphor for something.

[POI]

Yet another attempt to get THE answer... Christians, what is it?

The God of the Bible is the purveyor of confusion. Why?

How does one get to Heaven? What is God's criteria for His selection process?

Answer key:

A) All go because of his grace
B) Faith/belief
C) Works
D) Both B) and C)
E) No one goes, no one is worthy
F) Other, which does not already include the topics of B) and/or C)

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Provided Christian answers, thus far:

Post 11: JW No answer
Post 27: Eloi No answer
Post 49: Bjs1 answer B)
Post 76: Tam answer D)
Post 236: kjw47 answer D)
Post 239: DJT_47 answer D)
Post 321: AFG answer D)
Post 462: 1213 answer F)
Post 564: Mea Von H answer B)

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Christians, imagine you are God for a moment. You are the creator of humans, and you really want a permanent relationship with your creation. You know most humans are either illiterate, stupid, and/or easily blinded/distracted by unwanted forces (natural and supernatural alike). You know there exists these collections of writings we later call the Bible, which apparently gives a road map on how to achieve eternal bliss - (or go to Heaven). You also know, because you are God, that most people will not achieve it. Many of which, however, try as they might. Would you, imagining yourself as God again, be satisfied with what the Bible conveys about going to Heaven? I'll answer, as a fellow imaginer... No. I would not be satisfied. If I know the majority of my creation was, (again), illiterate, dumb, and/or easily distracted, I will make sure the written word was very easy to follow and also not leave any room for interpretation. You know, like all here clearly agree that God does not like murder, theft, trespassing, etc. And YET, we have countless denominations, all earnest in their attempt to translate what the Bible says. In essence, I blame God. He could provide any tool for the task and chose this one? All we have is the Bible. And as we have discovered, none of you fine folks agree. If you were God, I bet you would have devised a better plan of attack. What'za think?

[1213]

Yet another attempt to get THE answer... Christians, what is it?

The God of the Bible is the purveyor of confusion. Why?

How does one get to Heaven? ...

I have understood heaven is for God's children. So, to get to heaven, you would have to be a God's children.

and said, "Most assuredly I tell you, unless you turn, and become as little children, you will in no way enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.
Matt. 18:3
Jesus answered him, "Most assuredly, I tell you, unless one is born anew, [The word translated "anew" here and in John 3:7 (anothen) also means "again" and "from above".] he can't see the Kingdom of God." Nicodemus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb, and be born?" Jesus answered, "Most assuredly I tell you, unless one is born of water and spirit, he can't enter into the Kingdom of God! That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Don't marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born anew.'
John 3:3-7
But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become God's children, to those who believe in his name: who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 1:12-13

Is there something unclear in that? Or do you have a problem with that?

[POI]

Is there something unclear in that? Or do you have a problem with that?

There is a problem. No other proclaimed Christian, who also expresses true understanding, just like YOU do, agrees with you. Some of them do not agree with each other either. The point of this thread is to demonstrate that all of your said ways can ALL be the right one. This makes no sense because they conflict with one another. This also demonstrates my point. The God of the Bible is the purveyor of confusion. Why? You can use conflicting passages to come to the same conclusion. If you do not believe me, see my summary post, where differing Christians used differing verses to assert the same result as you.

[1213]

There is a problem. No other proclaimed Christian, who also expresses true understanding, just like YOU do, agrees with you.

If they don't agree with the words of Jesus, why call them Christians?

By what is said in the Bible a Christian is a disciples of Jesus. And if person is truly a disciple of Jesus, he remains in word of Jesus.

…The disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.
Acts 11:26

Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, “If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
John 8:31-32

[Mae von H]

Is there something unclear in that? Or do you have a problem with that?

There is a problem. No other proclaimed Christian, who also expresses true understanding, just like YOU do, agrees with you. Some of them do not agree with each other either. The point of this thread is to demonstrate that all of your said ways can ALL be the right one. This makes no sense because they conflict with one another. This also demonstrates my point. The God of the Bible is the purveyor of confusion. Why? You can use conflicting passages to come to the same conclusion. If you do not believe me, see my summary post, where differing Christians used differing verses to assert the same result as you.

For those of us who have been walking with Jesus decades and learning over the decades, one sees that some have progressed farther and therefore understand better than others. And it does happen that some digress and understand less with time. And some refuse to learn but decided what they want to believe and wild horses cannot get them to adjust to any new understanding. This is how people are and it is not limited to christianity. Ask 10 doctors how to treat xyzback pain and you will get a variety of opinions. Does that mean there is no back and no pain? People disagree all the time. People with extensive education and understanding disagree with each other all the time. Why is it only in Christianity is this supposed to show that there is no God?

[TRANSPONDER]

There is a problem. No other proclaimed Christian, who also expresses true understanding, just like YOU do, agrees with you.

If they don't agree with the words of Jesus, why call them Christians?

By what is said in the Bible a Christian is a disciples of Jesus. And if person is truly a disciple of Jesus, he remains in word of Jesus.

…The disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.
Acts 11:26

Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, “If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
John 8:31-32

As interpreted by you. And we have seen how you make stuff up if you need to and ignore what the Bible says if it doesn't suit you.

Your whole thesis about works rather than Faith apparently depends on a rather narrow reading of Paul of 'Abraham believed God' transferred to 'Christians believe Jesus' where doing what they say rather than having Faith in them is what saves.

And yet when I pointed up 'give your dish and follow me', you found the excuse that Jesus was no longer on earth so you couldn't' follow him'. So his words no longer count.

Don't you see how your personal interpretation of what the Words actually mean is a very personal (not to say self - serving) one. and to talk of 'remaining in the 'word of Jesus'.

That can be interpreted as faith in Jesus and what is said about him (resurrected son of God) by his church, which is his Word, not he is no longer on earth. But no, you want to interpret his Bible and say (effectively) what a Christian is or is not, backed up with some apparently irrelevant quotes, even if one could trust Luke and Acts ant further than one could kick them.

You can of course express your views here, as anyone can, but I have to explain why they are seriously slipshod views.

[POI]

There is a problem. No other proclaimed Christian, who also expresses true understanding, just like YOU do, agrees with you.

If they don't agree with the words of Jesus, why call them Christians?

By what is said in the Bible a Christian is a disciples of Jesus. And if person is truly a disciple of Jesus, he remains in word of Jesus.

…The disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.
Acts 11:26

Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, “If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
John 8:31-32

As already stated, multiple times now, the God you believe in is the purveyor of confusion. Why? All earnest believers, you included, cannot even agree on the simple question regarding what option achieves your salvation? I do not blame you. I blame the author. This is why I asked, unanswered. If you were God, would you be happy with such a collection of assertions, which leads many earnest followers down the wrong path?

[POI]

For those of us who have been walking with Jesus decades and learning over the decades, one sees that some have progressed farther and therefore understand better than others. And it does happen that some digress and understand less with time. And some refuse to learn but decided what they want to believe and wild horses cannot get them to adjust to any new understanding. This is how people are and it is not limited to christianity. Ask 10 doctors how to treat xyzback pain and you will get a variety of opinions. Does that mean there is no back and no pain? People disagree all the time. People with extensive education and understanding disagree with each other all the time. Why is it only in Christianity is this supposed to show that there is no God?

Because the stakes are much higher. If you are wrong, you are eternally condemned.