What does YOUR god say about abortion

[Miles]

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What does your god have to say about abortion?

Please cite the source for your answer.


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[Miles]

Exodus 21:22-23 (NWT)

22 “If men should struggle with each other and they hurt a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely+ but no fatality results, the offender must pay the damages imposed on him by the husband of the woman; and he must pay it through the judges.+ 23 But if a fatality does occur, then you must give life for life

Even your own Bible takes the child out of the equation.

It does nothing of the kind as the Hebrew indicates the reference to potential fatality refers to both mother and child.

Not as your Bible puts it.

22 “If men should struggle with each other and they hurt a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely+ but no fatality results, the offender must pay the damages imposed on him by the husband of the woman; and he must pay it through the judges.+ 23 But if a fatality does occur, then you must give life for life

Just what do you think "but NO fatality results" means? Does it single out the mother? NO. Does it single out the child? NO. does it indicate neither one died. IT CERTAINLY DOES. And, as the Good News Translation observes, even when the child is lost the "life for life" mentioned only applies to the mother.

Exodus 21:22-23 (Good News Translation)
22 “If some men are fighting and hurt a pregnant woman so that she loses her child, but she is not injured in any other way, the one who hurt her is to be fined whatever amount the woman's husband demands, subject to the approval of the judges. 23 But if the woman herself is injured, the punishment shall be life for life,

Hebrew-English interlinear by Dr. G. R. Berry notes that the Hebrew does not limit the application of “injury” (fatal accident) to just the mother. Further, The commentary by C. F. Keil and F. Delitzsch points out that a fine was sufficient only when {quote} “no injury [fatal accident] was done either to the woman or the child that was born.” and points out that if the Law meant just the mother the Hebrew text would have added lah, meaning “to her.” they conclude: “The omission of lah, also, apparently renders it impracticable to refer the words to [an] injury done to the woman alone.”

"Apparently" indeed. Nice little weasel word there.


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[JehovahsWitness]

Hebrew-English interlinear by Dr. G. R. Berry notes that the Hebrew does not limit the application of “injury” (fatal accident) to just the mother. Further, The commentary by C. F. Keil and F. Delitzsch points out that a fine was sufficient only when {quote} “no injury [fatal accident] was done either to the woman or the child that was born.” and points out that if the Law meant just the mother the Hebrew text would have added lah, meaning “to her.” they conclude: “The omission of lah, also, apparently renders it impracticable to refer the words to [an] injury done to the woman alone.”

"Apparently" indeed. Nice little weasel word there.


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What do you mean "weasel word"? Please explain.

EXODUS 21:23

But if a fatality does occur, then you must give life for life,

The point is the "fatality" [fatal] injury that must be repaid by a life is NOT limited to the mother in the text. It does not say if a [fatal] injury ocurrs "TO HER /if the woman suffers a [fatal] injury", it just states if a [fatal] injury ocurrs: PERIOD. Therefore if the baby dies as a result of the acts of an adult, the adult had to pay with his life.




* See above

Exodus 21:22-23 (Good News Translation)
..... 23 But if the woman herself is injured, the punishment shall be life for life,

BY FAR THE MAJORITY OF BIBLE TRANSLATIONS ARE MORE FAITHFUL TO THE HEBREW* IN NOT LIMITING THE INJURY TO THE WOMAN ALONE


Source: Source: https://biblehub.com/interlinear/exodus/21-23.htm

But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life,

New Living Translation
But if there is further injury, the punishment must match the injury: a life for a life,

English Standard Version
But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life,

Berean Study Bible
But if a serious injury results, then you must require a life for a life—

King James Bible
And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

New King James Version
But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life,

New American Standard Bible
But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life,

NASB 1995
“But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life,

NASB 1977
“But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life,

Amplified Bible
But if there is any further injury, then you shall require [as a penalty] life for life,

Christian Standard Bible
If there is an injury, then you must give life for life,

Holman Christian Standard Bible
If there is an injury, then you must give life for life,

American Standard Version
But if any harm follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And if there is misfortune, he will give a life in exchange for a life,

Brenton Septuagint Translation
But if it be perfectly formed, he shall give life for life,

Contemporary English Version
But if she is seriously injured, the payment will be life for life,

Douay-Rheims Bible
But if her death ensue thereupon, he shall render life for life.

International Standard Version
If there is harm, then you are to require life for life,

JPS Tanakh 1917
But if any harm follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

Literal Standard Version
and if there is harm [to them], then you have given life for life,

New American Bible
But if injury ensues, you shall give life for life,

NET Bible
But if there is serious injury, then you will give a life for a life,

New Revised Standard Version
If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life,

New Heart English Bible
But if there is injury, then you must take life for life,

World English Bible
But if any harm follows, then you must take life for life,

Young's Literal Translation
and if there is mischief, then thou hast given life for life,

SOURCE: https://biblehub.com/exodus/21-23.htm

JW

[Miles]

Hebrew-English interlinear by Dr. G. R. Berry notes that the Hebrew does not limit the application of “injury” (fatal accident) to just the mother. Further, The commentary by C. F. Keil and F. Delitzsch points out that a fine was sufficient only when {quote} “no injury [fatal accident] was done either to the woman or the child that was born.” and points out that if the Law meant just the mother the Hebrew text would have added lah, meaning “to her.” they conclude: “The omission of lah, also, apparently renders it impracticable to refer the words to [an] injury done to the woman alone.”

"Apparently" indeed. Nice little weasel word there.


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What do you mean "weasel word"? Please explain.

weasel word noun
Definition of weasel word
: a word used in order to evade or retreat from a direct or forthright statement or position
Source: Merriam Webster

EXODUS 21:23

But if a fatality does occur, then you must give life for life,

The point is the "fatality" [fatal injury] that must be repaid by a life is NOT limited to the mother in the text. It does not say if a [fatal] injury ocurrs TO HER , it just states if a [fatal] injury ocurrs: PERIOD. Therefore if the baby dies as a result of the acts of an adult, the adult had to pay with his life.

Not at all.

Blue: Only the child dies
Red: The mother dies

Exodus 21:22-23
22 “If some men are fighting and hurt a pregnant woman so that she loses her child, but she is not injured in any other way, the one who hurt her is to be fined whatever amount the woman's husband demands, subject to the approval of the judges. 23 But if the woman herself is injured, (a fatal accident according to your Dr. G. R. Berry) the punishment shall be life for life,

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[JehovahsWitness]

Hebrew-English interlinear by Dr. G. R. Berry notes that the Hebrew does not limit the application of “injury” (fatal accident) to just the mother. Further, The commentary by C. F. Keil and F. Delitzsch points out that a fine was sufficient only when {quote} “no injury [fatal accident] was done either to the woman or the child that was born.” and points out that if the Law meant just the mother the Hebrew text would have added lah, meaning “to her.” they conclude: “The omission of lah, also, apparently renders it impracticable to refer the words to [an] injury done to the woman alone.”

"Apparently" indeed. Nice little weasel word there.


.

What do you mean "weasel word"? Please explain.

weasel word noun
Definition of weasel word
: a word used in order to evade or retreat from a direct or forthright statement or position
Source: Merriam Webster

Okay ... and what specifically in the academic works refered to do you believe is a "weasel word" and why?

[Difflugia]

What do you mean "weasel word"? Please explain.

Wikipedia

EXODUS 21:23

But if a fatality does occur, then you must give life for life,

The point is the "fatality" [fatal] injury that must be repaid by a life is NOT limited to the mother in the text. It does not say if a [fatal] injury ocurrs "TO HER /if the woman suffers a [fatal] injury", it just states if a [fatal] injury ocurrs: PERIOD. Therefore if the baby dies as a result of the acts of an adult, the adult had to pay with his life.

First, if אָסֹ֖ון there means "fatality" instead of something like "injury," then to what do the qualifications in verse 24 (burn, bruise, eye, tooth) refer? If the victim is necessarily dead and the offender is already paying with his or her life, why the extra qualification?

Second, if the injury refers to the unborn child, then verse 22 must also refer to the possibility of a live, healthy birth. If that's the case, then the father of the child must still be compensated for a healthy birth in which there is no injury. What is that compensation for? All of the other cases in this portion of Exodus require an explicit injury before compensation is justified. If vv. 22-24 are to be interpreted as you'd prefer, then they would be an exception. Why?

[JehovahsWitness]

Exodus 21:23

23 But if the woman herself is injured, (a fatal accident according to your Dr. G. R. Berry) the punishment shall be life for life,

Looking at the the script in the Hebrew, can you See the word WOMAN anywhere in verse 23?




BY FAR THE MAJORITY OF BIBLE TRANSLATIONS ARE MORE FAITHFUL TO THE HEBREW* IN NOT LIMITING THE INJURY TO THE WOMAN ALONE

But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life,

New Living Translation
But if there is further injury, the punishment must match the injury: a life for a life,

English Standard Version
But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life,

Berean Study Bible
But if a serious injury results, then you must require a life for a life—

King James Bible
And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

New King James Version
But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life,

New American Standard Bible
But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life,

NASB 1995
“But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life,

NASB 1977
“But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life,

Amplified Bible
But if there is any further injury, then you shall require [as a penalty] life for life,

Christian Standard Bible
If there is an injury, then you must give life for life,

Holman Christian Standard Bible
If there is an injury, then you must give life for life,

American Standard Version
But if any harm follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And if there is misfortune, he will give a life in exchange for a life,

Brenton Septuagint Translation
But if it be perfectly formed, he shall give life for life,

Contemporary English Version
But if she is seriously injured, the payment will be life for life,

Douay-Rheims Bible
But if her death ensue thereupon, he shall render life for life.

International Standard Version
If there is harm, then you are to require life for life,

JPS Tanakh 1917
But if any harm follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

Literal Standard Version
and if there is harm [to them], then you have given life for life,

New American Bible
But if injury ensues, you shall give life for life,

NET Bible
But if there is serious injury, then you will give a life for a life,

New Revised Standard Version
If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life,

New Heart English Bible
But if there is injury, then you must take life for life,

World English Bible
But if any harm follows, then you must take life for life,

Young's Literal Translation
and if there is mischief, then thou hast given life for life,

SOURCE: https://biblehub.com/exodus/21-23.htm

JW


FURTHER READING
https://www.ministrymagazine.org/archiv ... blical-law

[Difflugia]

BY FAR THE MAJORITY OF BIBLE TRANSLATIONS ARE MORE FAITHFUL TO THE HEBREW* IN NOT LIMITING THE INJURY TO THE WOMAN ALONE

MOST BIBLE TRANSLATIONS RETAIN THE AMBIGUITY IN THE EXACT WORDING OF THAT VERSE (WHICH I THINK THEY SHOULD DO IN ALL CASES). THE OVERALL CONTEXT, HOWEVER, DOES LIMIT THE INJURY TO THE WOMAN, IN THAT "HER BOY GOING OUT" OF VERSE 22 REFERS TO A MISCARRIAGE. SINCE THE CHILD IS ALREADY DEAD, THE INJURY IS NECESSARILY LIMITED TO THE WOMAN ALONE.

[JehovahsWitness]

First, if אָסֹ֖ון there means "fatality" instead of something like "injury," then to what do the qualifications in verse 24 (burn, bruise, eye, tooth) refer?

An injury can be fatal or not: a non-fatal injury is an injury and a fatal injury (a fatality) is also an injury. Verses 23 and 24 are obviously qualitative not cumulative; it is not saying all the types of injures are to be combined to face a single punishment. The whole principle of the verses is that the punishment should be equal to the TYPE of injury inflicted. Only the fatal type of injury would require the ultimate payment.

According to A Concise Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament by William L. Holladay, asón (אָסֹ֖ון) means “mortal accident.” This is borne out by the usage of asón in its three other occurrences in the Bible. (Gen. 42:4, 38; 44:29) Thus, contextually “fatal accident” /fatal injury is a solid rendition of אָסֹ֖ון in Exodus 21v23 the punishment of which is limited to the first clause in the edict that follows.

CONCLUSION Injury is a perfectly legitimate translation of "ason" but fatal injury/accident arguably better reflects its biblical usage at EXODUS 12v23 (a) and its accompanying clause : "life for life".

[JehovahsWitness]

EXODUS 21:22

If men should struggle with each other and they hurt a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but no fatality [Or “serious injury.”] results, the offender must pay the damages imposed on him by the husband of the woman; and he must pay it through the judges.

... if the injury refers to the [the mother and/or the] unborn child...

Nobody is suggesting the sanctions exclude the mother....

...if the injury refers to the [the mother and/or the] unborn child, then verse 22 must also refer to the possibility of a live, healthy birth.

Yes that is correct.

If that's the case, then the father of the child must still be compensated for a healthy birth in which there is no injury [ to the child] .

Correct.

What is that compensation for? ...

Hurting the mother (which arguably also caused trauma to the baby)

[Miles]

Hebrew-English interlinear by Dr. G. R. Berry notes that the Hebrew does not limit the application of “injury” (fatal accident) to just the mother. Further, The commentary by C. F. Keil and F. Delitzsch points out that a fine was sufficient only when {quote} “no injury [fatal accident] was done either to the woman or the child that was born.” and points out that if the Law meant just the mother the Hebrew text would have added lah, meaning “to her.” they conclude: “The omission of lah, also, apparently renders it impracticable to refer the words to [an] injury done to the woman alone.”

"Apparently" indeed. Nice little weasel word there.


.

What do you mean "weasel word"? Please explain.

weasel word noun
Definition of weasel word
: a word used in order to evade or retreat from a direct or forthright statement or position
Source: Merriam Webster

Okay ... and what specifically in the academic works refered to do you believe is a "weasel word" and why?

"Apparently." As to the why, I'm sure you can figure it out without my help.


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