Do you understand those on the other side?

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

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Jose Fly
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Do you understand those on the other side?

Post #1

Post by Jose Fly »

As I've pointed out many times (probably too many times), I grew up in a fundamentalist Christian environment. I was taught young-earth creationism from an early age, was told prayer and reading the Bible were the answer to most of life's problems and questions, and witnessed all sorts of "interesting" things such as speaking in tongues, faith healing, end times predictions, etc.

Yet despite being completely immersed in this culture, I can't recall a time in my life when I ever believed any of it. However, unlike some of my peers at the time I didn't really find it boring. In fact, I found a lot of it to be rather fascinating because.....very little of it made any sense to me. I just could not understand the people, their beliefs, their way of thinking, or much of anything that I saw and heard. When I saw them anointing with oil someone who had the flu and later saw the virus spread (of course), I could not understand what they were thinking. When I saw them make all sorts of failed predictions about the Soviet Union and the end times, yet never even acknowledge their errors while continuing to make more predictions, I was baffled. Speaking in tongues was of particular interest to me because it really made no sense to me.

In the years that I've been debating creationists it's the same thing. When I see them say "no transitional fossils" or "no new genetic information" only to ignore examples of those things when they're presented, I can't relate to that way of thinking at all. When I see them demand evidence for things only to ignore it after it's provided, I can't relate. When I see them quote mine a scientific paper and after someone points it out they completely ignore it, I can't relate.

Now to be clear, I think I "understand" some of what's behind these behaviors (i.e., the psychological factors), but what I don't understand is how the people engaging in them seem to be completely oblivious to it all. What goes on in their mind when they demand "show me the evidence", ignore everything that's provided in response, and then come back later and make the same demand all over again? Are they so blinded by the need to maintain their beliefs that they literally block out all memories of it? Again....I just don't get it.

So the point of discussion for this thread is....how about you? For the "evolutionists", can you relate to the creationists' way of thinking and behaviors? For the creationists, are there behaviors from the other side that baffle you, and you just don't understand? Do you look at folks like me and think to yourselves, "I just cannot relate to his way of thinking?"

Or is it just me? :P
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Re: Do you understand those on the other side?

Post #651

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Re: Do you understand those on the other side?

Post #652

Post by JoeyKnothead »

William wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 5:30 pm [Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #650]

Image
Some!

I forgot to include that most important word :facepalm:

For the record, I find my theist friend to be of the highest honor and integrity (not counting I'm fairly certain he's committed at least one petty crime in his life, just for the giggles :wave: )
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Re: Do you understand those on the other side?

Post #653

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Oatman, Arizona, a great place for a day trip if you're an animal lover:

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Re: Do you understand those on the other side?

Post #654

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Inquirer wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 6:56 pm Oatman, Arizona, a great place for a day trip if you're an animal lover:

Image
That's cool as heck. Just don't walk behind one.
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Re: Do you understand those on the other side?

Post #655

Post by William »

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #652]

Yep Joey - it is more a case of there are indeed exceptions to the rule, but I no longer identify as a Theist. Nor do I sit on the fence as an Agnostic. I am more of a Wall-Walker since I view with me minds-eyes a Giant Wall between Theists and Atheists, rather than some simple fence.
It kinda means that I view both sectors as 'those on the other side' and visa versa - an odd-ball place to be, I don't deny... :)

And yes - I have had me mischief with the law over the years - but not for ages now... :D

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Re: Do you understand those on the other side?

Post #656

Post by Inquirer »

William wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:31 am [Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #652]

Yep Joey - it is more a case of there are indeed exceptions to the rule, but I no longer identify as a Theist. Nor do I sit on the fence as an Agnostic. I am more of a Wall-Walker since I view with me minds-eyes a Giant Wall between Theists and Atheists, rather than some simple fence.
It kinda means that I view both sectors as 'those on the other side' and visa versa - an odd-ball place to be, I don't deny... :)

And yes - I have had me mischief with the law over the years - but not for ages now... :D
What is this "wall" you speak of?

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Re: Do you understand those on the other side?

Post #657

Post by William »

Inquirer wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:17 am
William wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:31 am [Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #652]

Yep Joey - it is more a case of there are indeed exceptions to the rule, but I no longer identify as a Theist. Nor do I sit on the fence as an Agnostic. I am more of a Wall-Walker since I view with me minds-eyes a Giant Wall between Theists and Atheists, rather than some simple fence.
It kinda means that I view both sectors as 'those on the other side' and visa versa - an odd-ball place to be, I don't deny... :)

And yes - I have had me mischief with the law over the years - but not for ages now... :D
What is this "wall" you speak of?
It is a metaphorical wall which has been built by theists and atheists [those on 'the other side' of each other...]

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Re: Do you understand those on the other side?

Post #658

Post by Inquirer »

William wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 12:48 pm
Inquirer wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:17 am
William wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:31 am [Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #652]

Yep Joey - it is more a case of there are indeed exceptions to the rule, but I no longer identify as a Theist. Nor do I sit on the fence as an Agnostic. I am more of a Wall-Walker since I view with me minds-eyes a Giant Wall between Theists and Atheists, rather than some simple fence.
It kinda means that I view both sectors as 'those on the other side' and visa versa - an odd-ball place to be, I don't deny... :)

And yes - I have had me mischief with the law over the years - but not for ages now... :D
What is this "wall" you speak of?
It is a metaphorical wall which has been built by theists and atheists [those on 'the other side' of each other...]
There are no "sides" this is a divisive myth propagated by militant atheism to imply that "science" and "theism" are somehow incompatible, mutually exclusive domains.

I am a scientist and a theist, just like thousands of scientists were over the past thousand years or more, no wall here.

That's why I regard the title of the thread to be a sham, a variation of "have you stopped beating your wife" (that is, it is a fallacy, the "loaded question" fallacy).

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Re: Do you understand those on the other side?

Post #659

Post by JoeyKnothead »

First, I'd like to commend Inquirer for helping to promote the Linux operating system, by way of changing his avatar, to help spread the word...
Inquirer wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 12:52 pm There are no "sides" this is a divisive myth propagated by militant atheism to imply that "science" and "theism" are somehow incompatible, mutually exclusive domains.
"There are no sides!

It's them militant atheists, they did it!"
I am a scientist and a theist, just like thousands of scientists were over the past thousand years or more, no wall here.
And here I thought scientists had to know em something about it.
That's why I regard the title of the thread to be a sham, a variation of "have you stopped beating your wife" (that is, it is a fallacy, the "loaded question" fallacy).
Do you understand it ain't okay to beat your wife?

The OP is quite important in this divisive age.
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Re: Do you understand those on the other side?

Post #660

Post by William »

Booy

The division is plain enough. Metaphore is useful, even if it doesn't explain the complete situation...The Wall exists and I walk it, due to my world view....not saying that there are no pathways or hand and foot holds but the walls are definatly there even that they manifest as different objects in this reality...

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