If you were Satan....

[Athetotheist]

I remember a TV preacher once asking his broadcast audience, "If you were Satan....." I don't remember the rest of the question, but I seem to remember that he was talking about prophecy and arguing that Satan was up to some diabolical mischief ("If you were Satan, isn't that what you would do?").

A lot of detail in Christian scripture about what is to happen before Jesus returns is tied to the activity of "Satan". The appearance of the "antichrist", in particular, is supposed to be part of Satan's last gambit before he goes down to utter defeat.

Since it was asked of me how I would react if I were Satan, I think it's fair for me to answer. I know that "Satan" is supposed to be a being of superhuman intelligence, but I can't help thinking that if such a being actually existed and if I were that being, I could do a lot better.

If I were "Satan", I would scrap the antichrist plan. If it's all laid out in the Bible, then everyone knows what to expect and you've lost the element of surprise. With that one simple deviation from the prophetic scenario, the whole thing would be gummed up. No antichrist, no mark of the beast, no abomination of desolation, no anything I was supposed to do as Satan to set the stage for the return of Jesus. And without those prophetic components in place, Jesus couldn't return to fulfill prophecy. And how could anyone stop me? I wouldn't be taking some action which could be prevented; I would be defeating prophecy by not taking action.

So let me pass the preacher's question on to you. If you were "Satan", what would you do----or not do----to thwart prophecy?

[The Nice Centurion]

So you're suggesting that if "Satan" didn't do his thing, Jesus would just jump in and take over for him? That would make Jesus a deceiver and not the true savior he's supposed to be.

Sure, but Jesus neednt even to jump in and do anything either. Endrime prophecy can be interpreted that loosely that christians will declare it fullfilled even if nothing has happened at all.
Just look at Jehovahs Witnesses 1914, which "saw" a sucessfull begin of Jesus reign. *Barf*
Seventh Day Adventists played the same game befor that. Even before JW split up with them.

You criticize me for claiming to know what "Satan" would do, yet here you are presuming to know what Jesus would do.

I only criticized that you do not want to hear the problems thst would arise with Satans inactivity.
The possibility of loose endtime interpretation could yet be his undoing. Or did JW care for his, or Jesus, inactivity in 1914?

Interpretation is an excuse only to a certain point. If you interpret everything so loosely that anything can fulfill prophecy, you don't have prophecy.

Take that up with JW and the like!
And how is Satan to thwart inexistent prophecy?

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to The Nice Centurion in post #311

Sure, but Jesus neednt even to jump in and do anything either. Endrime prophecy can be interpreted that loosely that christians will declare it fullfilled even if nothing has happened at all.

Do any Christians declare that all prophecy has been fulfilled? Is there a new heaven and a new earth now? How can Christians interpret that as having been fulfilled?

[The Nice Centurion]

[Replying to The Nice Centurion in post #311

Sure, but Jesus neednt even to jump in and do anything either. Endrime prophecy can be interpreted that loosely that christians will declare it fullfilled even if nothing has happened at all.

Do any Christians declare that all prophecy has been fulfilled? Is there a new heaven and a new earth now? How can Christians interpret that as having been fulfilled?

Like they continue to interpret anything in the bible that they find inconvenient:
It isnt in it/ it doesnt count anymore/ its just metapher/ we didnt see the fullfillment/ it says the exact opposite . . .
Recently I stumbled over a long long barfable apologetic that claims that bible abhors slavery.

Ift that goes, anything goes!

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to The Nice Centurion in post #311

Sure, but Jesus neednt even to jump in and do anything either. Endrime prophecy can be interpreted that loosely that christians will declare it fullfilled even if nothing has happened at all.

Do any Christians declare that all prophecy has been fulfilled? Is there a new heaven and a new earth now? How can Christians interpret that as having been fulfilled?

Like they continue to interpret anything in the bible that they find inconvenient:
It isnt in it/ it doesnt count anymore/ its just metapher/ we didnt see the fullfillment/ it says the exact opposite . . .
Recently I stumbled over a long long barfable apologetic that claims that bible abhors slavery.

Ift that goes, anything goes!

Which Christians interpret the prophecy of a new heaven and a new earth as having been fulfilled?

[The Nice Centurion]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #314]
Please one single time in this thread do your own research.

But here we have a real christian pastor Anderson, who officially condones slavery, calls for public execution of homosexualists, demands a law that forbids women to vote, leave their houses or divorce . . .

https://www.atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=9667.0

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #314]
Please one single time in this thread do your own research.

But here we have a real christian pastor Anderson, who officially condones slavery, calls for public execution of homosexualists, demands a law that forbids women to vote, leave their houses or divorce . . .

https://www.atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=9667.0

I'm not talking about slavery, same-sex relationships, voting or divorce. I'm asking if any Christians believe that a new heaven and a new earth have arrived.

Does "do your own research" mean that you don't know of any?

If the prophecy of a new heaven and a new earth clearly hasn't been fulfilled, then there must be hard and fast parameters it has to meet in order to be considered fulfilled.

[The Nice Centurion]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #314]
Please one single time in this thread do your own research.

But here we have a real christian pastor Anderson, who officially condones slavery, calls for public execution of homosexualists, demands a law that forbids women to vote, leave their houses or divorce . . .

https://www.atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=9667.0

I'm not talking about slavery, same-sex relationships, voting or divorce. I'm asking if any Christians believe that a new heaven and a new earth have arrived.

Does "do your own research" mean that you don't know of any?

If the prophecy of a new heaven and a new earth clearly hasn't been fulfilled, then there must be hard and fast parameters it has to meet in order to be considered fulfilled.

Preterism christianity teaches that all prophecys of revelation already happened within the lifetimes of the apostles!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preterism

(And no Spider-man involved. Not even his clone Ben Reilly.)

There is your answer! But would it have been been that hard to research it yourself?

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to The Nice Centurion in post #317

Preterism christianity teaches that all prophecys of revelation already happened within the lifetimes of the apostles!

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, and cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. (Rev. 20:1-3)

When has there been a period of a thousand years when "Satan" deceived the nations no more? Hasn't the entire period from the first century up to now been riddled with evil and strife?

For that matter, how could this prophecy have been fulfilled in the time of the apostles when a thousand years would have extended centuries beyond the time of the apostles?

It's fairly evident that the preterist position is wrong, and fairly evident that your reliance on it doesn't work.

[The Nice Centurion]

[Replying to The Nice Centurion in post #317

Preterism christianity teaches that all prophecys of revelation already happened within the lifetimes of the apostles!

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, and cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. (Rev. 20:1-3)

When has there been a period of a thousand years when "Satan" deceived the nations no more? Hasn't the entire period from the first century up to now been riddled with evil and strife?

For that matter, how could this prophecy have been fulfilled in the time of the apostles when a thousand years would have extended centuries beyond the time of the apostles?

It's fairly evident that the preterist position is wrong, and fairly evident that your reliance on it doesn't work.

My reliance on it is a strawman of yours.

You asked: "Do any christians believe that revelation has been fullfilled?"

I found some and answered positively.

Now you are moving the goalpost as I anticipated, and that was why I would have preferred you yourself researching them.

All christian positions live off the supposition that all other christian positions are wrong.

Your problems here you will have to take up with this preterists.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to The Nice Centurion in post #319

You asked: "Do any christians believe that revelation has been fullfilled?"

I found some and answered positively.

I pointed out that their belief is flawed.

Therefore, you can't use their belief as a buttress against the proposition that "Satan" would nullify prophecy by not playing it out.