Jesus is God and Why !

[Brightfame52]

Matt 19:16-26

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.


This passage actually is teaching the Truth that Jesus is God ! Notice vs 17 As the young man had addressed Jesus as good, and Jesus responded accordingly, why callest thou me good, for none is good but ONE, that One Being God

Now , notice Jesus did not say, none is good but One and that is my Father, but He said that One, Being God !

Now if Jesus by this is not insinuating that He is God, then the alternative is that He was not good, seeing He just said only ONE, not Two, but ONLY ONE is good.

Now, if Jesus was not good, being that He was not the Only One Good God, then His commanding him, the young ruler, in order to be perfect, that he must go sell all his possessions, then give to the poor, and follow Him; Such an commandment exposed that the young man loved his possessions above God, which was a violation of the very first commandment, now if Jesus was not God, then the young mans refusal to obey and follow Jesus, could not be a proper standard to gauge his Love to God !

For there could not have been nothing amiss about not making such a great sacrifice as that Jesus told him, and then following Him if the One speaking was not the One God, who Only was good !

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to 1213 in post #139]

There is only One God, I never denied that ! This thread is about showing how Jesus is God

[1213]

[Replying to 1213 in post #139]

There is only One God, I never denied that ! This thread is about showing how Jesus is God

Ok, then please explain, if Jesus is the one and only true God, why Bible says: "...only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ..."? If Jesus is the one and only true God, who sent Jesus?

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to 1213 in post #142]

I am explaining Jesus is also the One and True God. Read my post

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #6]

No, there are two type of bodies, natural and spiritual, and neither type is a mixture of God/man!

Catholics agree. The body of Christ was fully human. It was flesh and soul, just like us. God did not transform into a body. God assumed the human nature by uniting with the person of Christ, thus the person Christ has two natures, divine and human. There was no mixing of natures or transformation from one into the other. In fact, the early church fathers said if anyone says that when God became Jesus that God added anything to the flesh or the flesh added anything to God, let him be cursed. It was a serious thing to be cursed.

The unity is in the person, thus hypostasis. The unity is not in the substance of the body. Thus the body is not a mixture of God and man. One would have been cursed for believing such a thing.

BTW, this idea that the body would be one nature that is God and man is the heresy known as monophysitism.

[AquinasForGod]

For me the greatest evidence that Jesus was believed to be God by the early followers is historical. The church didn’t have a real resistance to Jesus being God until 300ad, when Arius started preaching that Jesus was not God.

But who cares? He is not an early church father. He is a johnny come lately. It makes sense why he could had doubted the divinity because he was living so many years after Jesus died. He wouldn’t have known anyone that lived with the disciples.

Those church fathers that did live in that time, like Saint Ignatius of Antioch, they would have known people that witnessed Jesus’ resurrection and testified that Jesus is God. This is why they all believed in the resurrection and Divinity of Jesus.

Saint Ignatius of Antioch (50-117ad) When he was young, he would have known those first followers and what they believed. In his letter to Romans, he says in the opening - https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0107.htm

through the majesty of the Most High Father, and Jesus Christ, His only-begotten Son; the Church which is beloved and enlightened by the will of Him that wills all things which are according to the love of Jesus Christ our God,

abundance of happiness unblameably, in Jesus Christ our God.

In the Greeting to his letter to the Ephesians https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0104.htm

by the will of the Father, and Jesus Christ, our God:

In his letter to Polycarp https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0110.htm

I pray for your happiness for ever in our God, Jesus Christ, by whom continue in the unity and under the protection of God.

I could go on, but that is enough.

We have Justin Martyr (100-165)

In his dialogue with Tripho - https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/01285.htm

Therefore these words testify explicitly that He is witnessed to by Him who established these things, as deserving to be worshipped, as God and as Christ.

And again he says https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/01289.htm

And that Christ being Lord, and God the Son of God, and appearing formerly in power as Man, and Angel, and in the glory of fire as at the bush, so also was manifested at the judgment executed on Sodom, has been demonstrated fully by what has been said.

For the sake of time, I am not going to quote more like Irenaeus of Lyons (AD 130-202), Clement of Alexandria (AD 150-215), Tertullian (AD 150-225), Hippolytus of Rome (AD 170-235)...

Besides Arius there is only one other major movement that rejected Jesus was God, although, they never posed a threat to the church. They were Ebionites. But they rejected most things of Christ. One major doctrine they rejected is the resurrection of Jesus, so they clearly were lost. In fact, the greatest evidence against them is the same evidence against Islam, which is the Corinthian Creed.

The Corinthian Creed is found in the letter to Corinthians chapter 15. Although, that letter dates to around 53ad, the creed he quotes is dated by most scholars to only 3 to 5 years after Jesus died.

If the Crucifixion was in 30 A.D., Paul’s Conversion was as early as 34 A.D., and his first meeting in Jerusalem was around 37 A.D., then we could see that the time between the event of Christ’s crucifixion and Paul receiving the information about His death, burial, and resurrection (in Jerusalem) would be as short as seven years (five if we use the earlier date).

https://carm.org/evidence-and-answers/1 ... ucifixion/

It is very clear that the disciples believed in the resurrection of Jesus, something the Ebionites rejected. They thought they had to keep the laws of Moses. They thought Jesus was just a man and did not pre-exist in heaven. He was just man that died and did not raise. They most likely hung onto to Jesus after the temple was destroyed in 70ad. Many Jews lost there faith after that event, and some of them might have tried to hold onto their faith by clinging to Jesus in some way, but could bring themselves to accept that Jesus was God and resurrected.

So for me, this is the greatest evidence that the disciples believed Jesus was God. History show us this is what they believed. Try to find historians that think the disciples did not believe Jesus was God, or they like the Ebionites they rejected the resurrection.

Maybe I will make another post going through many bible verses that show us the disciples believed Jesus is God.

[AquinasForGod]

Here are some verses that clearly show us the disciples believed Jesus was God.

John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

There are a few interesting things about this verse. The first one is that in the Greek, "he" is not there. The Greek is similar to elsewhere when Jesus said before Abraham I AM, ego eimi. ἐγώ εἰμ

γὰρ μὴ πιστεύσητε ὅτι ἐγώ εἰμι ἀποθανεῖσθε ἐν ταῖς ἁμαρτίαις ὑμῶν

Anyone can easily verify this - https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/jhn ... nc_1005024

This actually leads up to the end of chapter 8, where he says before Abraham was I AM. He is preparing them for this revealtion. You must believe I am. Believe I am what? Look at the verse before.

23 He said to them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

He says he is from above and not of this world, so believe I am or you will die in your sins. That is the second interesting thing about this verse. Why will they die in their sins if they do not believe Jesus is ego eimi? But let's read more.

28 So Jesus said to them, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority, but speak just as the Father taught me.

He is not there in this verse either. You can check the Greek with the link I provided already. So here Jesus says, when you have lifted up the Son of Man, when you have put him on the cross, then you will know that I AM. You will also know that he does nothing of himself because there is only one person of Christ with two natures. So the human nature must be subject to the divine nature. It could only not be subject to if there was more than one person of Christ, which there is not.

When they lifted up Jesus, at some point the sky went dark and the temple rent in two. Many then knew, oh, he is God. But it still wasn't clear to all that he spoke to that he made himself God, so Jesus continued.

He went on to tell them that their father is the devil and that if they had known him then they would have known the father. How though? How does knowing Jesus mean you know the Father? In Catholicism that is simple. They are the same God. If you know Jesus or if you know the Holy Spirit, then you know God for they are one individual.

Then we get to the end of chapter 8 where Jesus makes is to clear that he is God they started stoning him. Now some claim, they stoned him for claiming he was greater than Abraham. No. I will show this cannot be. Jesus already claimed to be greater than Abraham and they did not flip out and try to stone him.

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” 57 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”

No, they did not flip out and try to stone him until he claimed for a third time, I AM.

58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

Now onto Thomas. Thomas knew Jesus was Lord or he would not have followed him, but Jesus had said how he must die and how he would raise again. When Jesus died, it must have been difficult to believe unless you seen it yourself, and when Thomas say it himself, he worshipped Jesus as his Lord and his God. Jesus did not correct him. Those that fall into heresies that Jesus is not divine claim that Thomas was just crying out to God for he was excited. I don't see how that follows at all, especially because the whole reason why John is writing his gospel is to show the divinity of Jesus.

27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.” 28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

And so that brings us to John chapter 1. If you have never read Thomas Aquinas commentary on John, I highly recommend to at least read his commentary on the first few verses. It blew my mind. https://isidore.co/aquinas/english/John1.htm

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life,[a] and the life was the light of men.

Before I go into my thoughts on this, I want to show something Saint Aquinas says in the link I provided for his commentary of John.

So when the Evangelist says, In the beginning was the Word, we cannot understand this as a human or angelic word, because both these words have been made since man and angel have a cause and principle of their existence and operation, and the word of a man or an angel cannot exist before they do. The word the Evangelist had in mind he shows by saying that this word was not made, since all things were made by it. Therefore, the word about which John speaks here is the Word of God.

You cannot be in the beginning as the Word if you are the intellect of men or angels, for they were not in the beginning. They came to be after the beginning when they were then created.

But there is a point that I think is super important to mention. There was a belief that Jews were familiar with in the time of Jesus do to being Hellenized for so long. That idea is of the logos as talked about by Heraclitus and others. Also sometimes called by others Nous. It is the divine intellect in the world. It is how the world works the way it does. However, the ideas were that Logos emanated from God and is not God. The idea was that it was the first emanation from God. This is where Plotinus got his idea for the first soul.

If John believed that, then he would have worded himself very differently as did those writers. Instead, John offers us something different. He tells us no, the logos did not simply emanate from God but not being God, no, no. John says the Logos was in the beginning. And not only was the Logos in the beginning, but it was with God.

Some might want to say, that the Word was with God, thus cannot be God, which is why John further says and the word was God. But also, your word is with you and yet your word is not another other than you. There is a distinction between you existing and your mind. Your mind (logos) depends upon you existing, but you existing doesn't depend on your mind. This is clear when you consider a rock that has existence yet it has not logos. So your logos is always with you so long as you retain a mind and retain existence, yet your logos, though it is WITH you is not another individual.

At this point, I want to include another thing Aquinas says.

47 The first of these objections is this. You say that the Word was in the beginning, i.e., before all things. But before all things there was nothing. So if before all things there was nothing, where then was the Word? This objection arises due to the imaginings of those who think that whatever exists is somewhere and in some place. But this is rejected by John when he says, with God, which indicates the union mentioned in the last four conditions. So, according to Basil, the meaning is this: Where was the Word? The answer is: with God; not in some place, since he is unsurroundable, but he is with the Father, who is not enclosed by any place.

John first tells us "when" the Word was (in the beginning) and "where" the Word was (with God), and then what the Word was (and the Word was God). As Aquinas says

So lest you think that the Word was with the Father in such a way as to be under him and less than he, the Evangelist adds, and the Word was God.

And then as to why John says he was in the beginning with God

Aristotle, however, thought that the ideas of all things are in God, and that in God, the intellect, the one understanding, and what is understood, are the same. Nevertheless, he thought that the world is coeternal with him. Against this the Evangelist says, He, the Word alone, was in the beginning with God, in such a way that He does not exclude another person, but only another coeternal nature.

And for Jw's who try to claim that because the Greek lacks the article for when it says the Word was God, that somehow it means a lesser god,

Chrysostom gives us the reason why the Evangelist did not use the article with the name “God,” namely, because he had already mentioned God twice using the article, and so it was not necessary to repeat it a third time, but it was implied. Or, a better reason would be that “God” is used here as the predicate and is taken formally. And it is not the custom for the article to accompany names used as predicates, since the article indicates separation. But if “God” were used here as the subject, it could stand for any of the persons, as the Son or the Holy Spirit; then, no doubt, the article would be used in the Greek.

and

The predicate nominative in Greek normally does not take the definite article. In this verse, then, the lack of the definite article is grammatically consistent. According to the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, we see another example of this convention in John 8:54, where the predicate nominative is “Father”—again without the definite article preceding

But also, we see the article applies to Theos when it is about the son.

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

οὗτός ἐστιν ὁ ἀληθινὸς θεὸς καὶ ἥ ζωὴ αἶώνιος

It could not be more clear that John believed Jesus is God, the true God, not a lesser god.

And what did Paul say?

Romans 9:5 To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.

Christ, who is the God over all. You can find the article here as well in the Greek, although because of the grammar it is not right next to theos.

Okay, so back to John 1.

3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made

He could not make himself through himself and thus he was not made.

4 In him was life,[a] and the life was the light of men.

Now concerning the light.

9 The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world.

Christ is not just the light, he is the true light. And as the true light, he gives light to everyone that comes into existence. Only God can do such a thing.

Phil 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

Jesus is the form of God, which is not possible if he was another nature. Also, he is equal to God, which is not possible if he were of another nature.

And to show Jesus is THE GOD, ho theos, we also have.

Heb 1:8 But of the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.

So to the SON he says, your throne, THE GOD, with the article in Greek.

And again here.

Titus 2:13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

rev 22:6 And he said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. And the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must soon take place.”

Rev 22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”

Jesus is the God who sent his angel.

Matt 5:21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother

Only God could change his own Word of old. If Jesus were not God, he could not say you heard it such and such but I say I say, it is now like this.

Mark 2:28 So the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath.”

Jesus cannot claim to be lord of the Sabbath unless he is God.

Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. ...

As we see there.

Clearly, the following is God. Just read the full context if you doubt it.

Rev21:5 And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” 6 And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment.

And Yet Jesus says these of himself in Rev 22.

Rev 22:6 And he said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. And the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must soon take place.”

13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”

16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”

At first, we think this is God talking, but then by verse 16 we learn this is Jesus that has been testifying to John and it is he who has sent the angel.

2 Peter 1:1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

John 10:33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”

The Jews knew he made himself God.

Anyway, there are more but this is enough for now.

[myth-one.com]

Here are some verses that clearly show us the disciples believed Jesus was God.

Here is one written by the Apostle Paul:

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

[AquinasForGod]

Here are some verses that clearly show us the disciples believed Jesus was God.

Here is one written by the Apostle Paul:

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

I would hope so, for the church teaches the MAN Jesus is the meditator between God and man. And who better but the man who is perfectly united with the person of the Word?

[myth-one.com]

Here are some verses that clearly show us the disciples believed Jesus was God.

Here is one written by the Apostle Paul:

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

I would hope so, for the church teaches the MAN Jesus is the meditator between God and man. And who better but the man who is perfectly united with the person of the Word?

Definition of person: a human being regarded as an individual.

There is no person in the Kingdom of God.

Jesus and the Word are unique and different beings. The main difference is body type. One is natural and one is spiritual.

They are not united in the sense of being the same being.

But it could be said that they were "perfectly united" in regards to goals and understandings about how to achieve those goals. Jesus would be "perfectly united" with the spirit of the Word -- not the person of the Word.

All involved knew and agreed to the plan. Jesus mentioned at the age of 12 that He must be about His Father's business -- without anyone having to tell Him what that consisted of.

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #149]

That is not the definition of person in Catholic theology of the Trintiy and hypostatic union. We have to consider the jaron.

The definition of person in the dictionary is about individuals, so two person is two individuals. This is not the case with person in the Trinity. The persons are not individuals, so three persons is still one individual. The person of Christ, this has to do with his formal substance and not his material substance. This gets deep into scholastic metaphysics, which would take way to much time to explain here.

To make it simple, there is only one mind of Christ that experiences or shares in two natures, the divine and the natural.