Is The Universe Fine Tuned for Human Life?

[We_Are_VENOM]

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I say yes.

This thread was created in order to discuss/debate what is called the argument from design (teleological argument), which is a classical argument for the existence of God.

For more on what fine tuning is as it pertains to the argument, please read this wikipedia article..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-tuned_universe

Now, it is well known and established in science, that the constants and values which govern our universe is mathematically precise.

How precise?

Well, please see this article by Dr. Hugh Ross...

https://wng.org/roundups/a-fine-tuned-u ... 1617224984

Excerpt...

"More than a hundred different parameters for the universe must have values falling within narrowly defined ranges for physical life of any conceivable kind to exist." (see above article for list of parameters).

Or..(in wiki article above, on fine tuning)..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-tune ... e#Examples

When you read the articles, you will find that there isn't much room for error.

If you start with a highly chaotic, random, disordered big bang, the odds are astronomically AGAINST the manifestation of sentient, human life.

How disordered was the big bang at the onset of the expansion...well, physicist Roger Penrose calculated that the chances of life originating via random chance, was 1 chance in 10^10^123 ( The Emperor’s New Mind, pg. 341-344.....according to..

https://mathscholar.org/2017/04/is-the- ... 20universe.

That is a double exponent with 123 as the double!!

The only way to account for the fine tuning of our universe..there are only 3 possibilities..

1. Random chance: Well, we just addressed this option..and to say not likely is the biggest understatement in the history of understatements.

If you have 1 chance in 10^10^123 to accomplish something, it is safe to say IT AIN'T HAPPENING.

2. Necessity: This option is a no-go..because the constants and parameters could have been any values..in other words, it wasn't necessary for the parameters to have those specific values at the onset of the big bang.

3. Design: Bingo. First off, since the first two options are negated, then #3 wins by default...and no explanation is even needed, as it logically follows that #3 wins (whether we like it or not). However, I will provide a little insight.

You see, the constants and values which govern our universe had to have been set, as an INITIAL CONDITION of the big bang. By "set", I mean selectively chosen.

It is impossible for mother nature to have pre-selected anything, because nature is exactly what came in to being at the moment of the big bang.

So, not only (if intelligent design is negated) do we have a singularity sitting around for eons and expanding for reasons which cannot be determined (which is part of the absurdity), but we also have this singularity expanding with very low entropy (10^10^!23), which completely defies everything we know about entropy, to a degree which has never been duplicated since.

So, we have a positive reasons to believe in intelligent design...an intelligent design...a Cosmic Creator/Engineer...

We have positive reasons to believe in a God of the universe.

In closing...

1. No need to downplay fine tuning, because in the wiki article, you will see the fact that scientists are scrambling to try to find an explanation for fine tuning..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-tune ... planations

If there was no fine tuning, then you wouldn't need offer any explanations to explain it away, now would you?

2. Unless you can provide a fourth option to the above three options, then please spare me the "but there may be more options" stuff.

If that is what you believe, then tell me what they are, and I will gladly ADD THEM TO THE LIST AND EXPLAIN WHY THEY ALSO FAIL.

3. 10^10^123. Ouch.

[JoeyKnothead]

"Fine tuned for life" indicates the universe failed all that life which no longer lives.

Considering such, it's perhaps more apt to say the universe is fine tuned for death.

[Tcg]

[Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #1]

You've got it backwards. Human life is fine-tuned for the universe, well... for our little bitty tiny piece of it. Fine-tuned by evolution.


Tcg

[We_Are_VENOM]

[Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #1]

You've got it backwards. Human life is fine-tuned for the universe, well... for our little bitty tiny piece of it. Fine-tuned by evolution.


Tcg

10^10^123.

That, and dogs produce dogs.

[Tcg]

[Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #1]

You've got it backwards. Human life is fine-tuned for the universe, well... for our little bitty tiny piece of it. Fine-tuned by evolution.


Tcg

10^10^123.

That, and dogs produce dogs.

I presented facts that address your question. Some will accept these facts; others will deny them.


Tcg

[We_Are_VENOM]

[Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #1]

You've got it backwards. Human life is fine-tuned for the universe, well... for our little bitty tiny piece of it. Fine-tuned by evolution.


Tcg

10^10^123.

That, and dogs produce dogs.

I presented facts that address your question. Some will accept these facts; others will deny them.


Tcg

Yeah and I was with you all the way until "Fine tuned by evolution".

Kinda gave a black eye to the entire statement.

[Tcg]

[Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #1]

You've got it backwards. Human life is fine-tuned for the universe, well... for our little bitty tiny piece of it. Fine-tuned by evolution.


Tcg

10^10^123.

That, and dogs produce dogs.

I presented facts that address your question. Some will accept these facts; others will deny them.


Tcg

Yeah and I was with you all the way until "Fine tuned by evolution".

Kinda gave a black eye to the entire statement.

As I said, some will accept facts, and some won't.


Tcg

[We_Are_VENOM]

As I said, some will accept facts, and some won't.


Tcg

I just gave you the facts...

Fact #1: 10^10^123

Fact #2: Dogs produce dogs, etc.

Those are facts. Dont know what more you want.

[Tcg]

As I said, some will accept facts, and some won't.


Tcg

I just gave you the facts...

Fact #1: 10^10^123

Fact #2: Dogs produce dogs, etc.

Those are facts. Dont know what more you want.

I want nothing more. I've presented reality. Some will accept it, some won't.


Tcg

[We_Are_VENOM]

I want nothing more.

Good, then be content with what you have.

I've presented reality.

So did I.

Some will accept it, some won't.

Yeah, and some will accept eternal life through Christ, some won't.

[Tcg]

Yeah, and some will accept eternal life through Christ, some won't.

How does this address your O.P. or is it not intended to? The universe and life, remember? Or are you just now preaching rather than supporting your claims.


Tcg