A rant - about art.

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Rose2020
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A rant - about art.

Post #1

Post by Rose2020 »

Modern art that is. I do not know if age has robbed me of all patience and self restraint but I can't stand modern art.
When I see what looks like a child drew is up on a gallery wall, priced at a ridiculous level and art lovers are spouting nonsense - I cannot control my mouth. Surely the story of Emperor's New Clothes applies.

How gullible are people and just how much money have they got to throw away?

Look at Ben Nicholson. Please explain what that is about.

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Re: A rant - about art.

Post #21

Post by Tcg »

Rose2020 wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 10:17 am [Replying to Tcg in post #19]

I shall do it lol! I cannot be the only one who is puzzled by extortionate sums being paid for a few squiggles on a canvas by people with more money than sense.
That is the ultimate idol worship.
"Idol worship?" I'm not aware of anyone who thinks they're going to hell for worshiping the wrong art.


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Re: A rant - about art.

Post #22

Post by Rose2020 »

[Replying to Tcg in post #21]

I wouldn't say hell. I just think it is at best a waste of time and money. Artists, however good, are only human. It's not sensible to worship any man-made object.

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Re: A rant - about art.

Post #23

Post by Tcg »

Rose2020 wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 10:36 am [Replying to Tcg in post #21]

I wouldn't say hell. I just think it is at best a waste of time and money. Artists, however good, are only human. It's not sensible to worship any man-made object.
Why are you stuck on the idea of worship?


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: A rant - about art.

Post #24

Post by Miles »

Rose2020 wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 3:43 am :ok: [Replying to Tcg in post #12]

Thomas Kincade - now I don't mind that kind of thing although it is too over the top for me.
I can see what you mean though about the annoyance factor in such utter fantasy.
The fantasy doesn't annoy me as much as how many people are taken in by his absolutely artless and banal presentations. Essayist Joan Didion once observed:

A Kinkade painting was typically rendered in slightly surreal pastels. It typically featured a cottage or a house of such insistent coziness as to seem actually sinister, suggestive of a trap designed to attract Hansel and Gretel. Every window was lit, to lurid effect, as if the interior of the structure might be on fire.
source: Wikipedia

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Re: A rant - about art.

Post #25

Post by Rose2020 »

[Replying to Miles in post #24]

Yes I think that is true.

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Re: A rant - about art.

Post #26

Post by Diagoras »

[Replying to Rose2020 in post #1]

I had a look on Google for Ben Nicholson. Interesting that he once was part of a group that included sculptor Henry Moore - I’ve visited and enjoyed a sculpture park that displays a number of his figures.

Not all of Nicholson’s work is as ‘simple’ as 1938, for example. He evidently had some painting skill. As someone who admires artists like Dali, Magritte, Georgio de Chirico, Mondrian and Rothko (that last one seen at MOCA in Los Angeles), I actually rather like his style.

Each to their own. Vive la difference.

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Re: A rant - about art.

Post #27

Post by Rose2020 »

[Replying to Diagoras in post #26]

I absolutely loathe the sculpture work of Henry Moore. To me it is truly ugly.
Yet it is true, each person sees art differently.
Yet some art is so beautiful that it is universally appreciated.

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Re: A rant - about art.

Post #28

Post by Diagoras »

[Replying to Rose2020 in post #27]

As a matter of fact, I went to this exhibit of religious art last weekend.

Lots of art that some consider 'beyond price' for their religious importance, yet the actual technical skill on display in some instances is rudimentary. Not surprising, considering some were painted in the 1500's. What I found interesting was how myths surrounding various saints were 'borrowed' from different cultures, and how producing icons was alternately banned then allowed. The gallery did a good job of explaining the context of each painting and some of the relevant social history, so I could better understand its significance.

None of them were in any way art that I'd want on my wall. As paintings, they're dull and ugly (in my opinion). But looked at in a different way, I did learn some things.

Perhaps trying to look at modern art 'in a different way' would change your mind?

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Re: A rant - about art.

Post #29

Post by Rose2020 »

[Replying to Diagoras in post #28]
LP

I agree, nothing there appeals to me either. I don't go for such basic images.

In religious art mine is more along the lines of for instance wanting to see Holman Hunt's 'Light of the World'. I want to see real greatness in art, religious or otherwise.
I also love the drama in the works of Caravaggio, paintings in which so much is happening.

I accept that if properly guided through modern artworks, I may be persuaded that there is meaning and point in some. Yet I have that overriding feeling of The Emperor's New Clothes. I refuse to be dazzled by something just because some 'expert' thinks a dot on a canvas is a master work. Much modern art is ugly and ridiculous. Even more so are those who pay for it.

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Re: A rant - about art.

Post #30

Post by Difflugia »

Rose2020 wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 2:54 amI refuse to be dazzled by something just because some 'expert' thinks a dot on a canvas is a master work.
Have you ever taken the time to ask the expert why? Did you then make the effort to understand her response?

Of course, it's easier to put scare quotes on "expert" than it is to admit one's own lack of knowledge, but that kind of dismissive anti-intellectualism is both insidious and self-reinforcing. Once you can convince yourself that everything you don't understand is balogna and that the genuine experts are charlatans, you're setting yourself up to mistake ignorance itself for evidence. You keep mentioning the naked emperor, but remember that the story could have gone another way. The key was that everyone including the emperor was afraid of appearing the fool by speaking up at all. In the end, the clothiers did, in fact, turn out to be charlatans, but it was merely an accident that they were found out. The way the story should have played out is that someone (or everyone) would ask the clothiers to explain their fabrics and fashions. Now imagine that following the explanation, the emperor and most of his subjects really can begin to see the clothes. They can appreciate the clothes for what they are and begin to discuss the fabrics and styles amongst themselves, pointing out to each other details that their friends may have missed. There will always be those that fail to understand the discussion. Whether the reason is lack of motivation, temperament, or ability is immaterial to anything except our sympathies, but there will sill be a few that fail to see the emperor's clothes. Those people must now confront the growing mass of evidence that they are, in fact, the fools of which the clothiers spoke in the first place. Try to imagine what forms those conversations might take.

My brother has a university art degree, a BA of Fine Arts in Painting. If you've never been to an art museum with a bona fide art expert, I recommend you add it to your bucket list. It's illuminating. I'd also recommend that you get in the habit of seeking out experts (or at least relative experts) of other things that you enjoy, find confusing, or both. If you drink wine, attend a wine tasting with someone that can explain what it is you're tasting. If you don't drink alcohol, do a tea tasting, instead. The line between a snob and an expert is a fine and often blurry one, but don't let your own fears of embarrassment by experts convince you that they're merely snobs with nothing to teach you.

I'm serious about the tasting. I'm a tea drinker. I occasionally drank brands like Lipton and Bigelow and enjoyed them. About twenty or so years ago, I was visiting my artist brother in New York and we were wandering through Manhattan's Chinatown. On a lark, we went into the Ten Ren tea store. I started talking to the clerk and after a few minutes, were invited into a back room to have Chinese tea in the "gong fu" Chinese-style. It was not only illuminating, but a lifestyle changer for me. I now have easily a hundred different teas in my tea cabinet. To be sure, I have some Lipton, Bigelow Constant Comment, Twinings Earl Grey, and Barry's Gold in there that I drink and enjoy. One of the more interesting styles, though, is a type of fermented tea ("ripe pu erh") that is then compressed into cakes. The flavor notes are often described using words like "barnyard" and "compost." I'll just tell you that acquired tastes are a real thing and one sometimes doesn't appreciate the experiences the first, second, or third time one tries them, but I regularly drink tea from several cakes of various ages from several Chinese tea producers. Based on the way my brother looks at and talks about art, I'm suspecting that the analogy of acquired taste in art may be rather apt.
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