Evil thoughts?

[historia]

Is it evil, or wrong, for someone to fantasize about molesting children if he never acts on it?

[JehovahsWitness]

Can I simply let the "other guy" do it ...?

That would depend on if that law applied to you. If you have a time machine and could travel back 3000 years or so before the law was abolished, and you lived in the theocratic kingdom of Israel and due process had been applied and you were appointed by the court to exercise the verdict... perhaps.

Abolished!!

What are you talking about? No law was abolished. Jesus even said so.

Matthew 5:17-18
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Yes , abolished and you misinterpret Jesus words.




ABOLISHMENT OF THE MOSAIC LAW

Does the bible say the Mosaic law has been "abolished"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 76#p918176

Did Jesus not say he had not come to abolish the law [Mat 5:17] ?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 78#p965278

Does Mat 5:18 not indicate that none of the Mosaic law would ever pass away?
viewtopic.php?p=1042911#p1042911

Did Christ indicate that his death would signal the end of the Jewish obligation to obey the Mosaic law?
viewtopic.php?p=950778#p950778

Does the abolishment of the Mosaic Law mean that Christians are not under obligation to obey ANY laws?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 89#p918189

[Miles]

Can I simply let the "other guy" do it ...?

That would depend on if that law applied to you. If you have a time machine and could travel back 3000 years or so before the law was abolished, and you lived in the theocratic kingdom of Israel and due process had been applied and you were appointed by the court to exercise the verdict... perhaps.

Abolished!!

What are you talking about? No law was abolished. Jesus even said so.

Matthew 5:17-18
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Yes , abolished and you misinterpret Jesus words.

Don't you mean I "necessarily misinterpret Jesus words"? Because read as written they don't agree with your theology.

Reminds me of the creationist approach to Conclusions.

..................................

.

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to historia in post #1]

Jesus said we can.

Matthew 5:28 ESV
But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Matt 15: 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. 20 These are what defile a person.

If Jesus talks of evil thoughts, then we can have them. The church divides sin into two main categories: venial and mortal. Most evil thoughts will be venial. To be in danger of soul, you must do mortal sins.

First we should understand Mortal sins.

CCC 1874 To choose deliberately - that is, both knowing it and willing it - something gravely contrary to the divine law and to the ultimate end of man is to commit a mortal sin. This destroys in us the charity without which eternal beatitude is impossible. Unrepented, it brings eternal death.

So to have a thought that is mortal sin, you must think to do a mortal sin. You must know it is wrong and intend to will it.

For example, if you think to murder someone, and you know how wrong it is, yet you still think to do it, and you intend to do it once you have the chance, like once you feel you can get away with it, then you are guilty of mortal sin. To think about mortal sin in this way is the same as if you did the mortal sin.

So to, if you think of doing a venial sin, then it is as if you did the venial sin.

However, it is different if the thought of sin enters your mind and you don't want it there. You are disgusted by the thought. That is not sin.

Aquinas gives a logical defense for this https://www.newadvent.org/summa/2074.htm in article 8

[JehovahsWitness]

Don't you mean I "necessarily misinterpret Jesus words"? Because read as written they don't agree with your theology.

No.



ABOLISHMENT OF THE MOSAIC LAW

Does the bible say the Mosaic law has been "abolished"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 76#p918176

Did Jesus not say he had not come to abolish the law [Mat 5:17] ?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 78#p965278

Does Mat 5:18 not indicate that none of the Mosaic law would ever pass away?
viewtopic.php?p=1042911#p1042911

Did Christ indicate that his death would signal the end of the Jewish obligation to obey the Mosaic law?
viewtopic.php?p=950778#p950778

Does the abolishment of the Mosaic Law mean that Christians are not under obligation to obey ANY laws?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 89#p918189

[Purple Knight]

For example, if you think to murder someone, and you know how wrong it is, yet you still think to do it, and you intend to do it once you have the chance, like once you feel you can get away with it, then you are guilty of mortal sin. To think about mortal sin in this way is the same as if you did the mortal sin.

So you've got two categories here: 1) the person who is disgusted by the thought of murder and doesn't want to be thinking about it but the stray thought enters his mind anyway and 2) the person who thinks about it willingly and will do it if he can get away with it.

There's a third category though: The person who thinks about it willingly and still won't actually do it if he can get away with it not because he fears being caught but because he knows it's wrong.

[AquinasForGod]

For example, if you think to murder someone, and you know how wrong it is, yet you still think to do it, and you intend to do it once you have the chance, like once you feel you can get away with it, then you are guilty of mortal sin. To think about mortal sin in this way is the same as if you did the mortal sin.

So you've got two categories here: 1) the person who is disgusted by the thought of murder and doesn't want to be thinking about it but the stray thought enters his mind anyway and 2) the person who thinks about it willingly and will do it if he can get away with it.

There's a third category though: The person who thinks about it willingly and still won't actually do it if he can get away with it not because he fears being caught but because he knows it's wrong.

Yes, there are many subcategories, such as you think about murder because you are trying to solve a case, in which it is not sin at all.

[iam1me2023]

[Replying to historia in post #1]

When you allow yourself to fantasize about sinful deeds, you are fanning the flames and opening yourself up to committing those same kinds of deeds should the opportunity present itself. Both good and evil begin internally, in one’s heart and mind. The physical manifestation of good and evil - in the form of good/evil actions - are merely a symptom of what is going on within.

[JehovahsWitness]

Is it evil, or wrong, for someone to fantasize about molesting children if he never acts on it?

Yes.

If finding pleasure in the idea of inflicting pain and immeasurable suffering on innocent chidren isn't evil I dont know what is. That said, I believe God is merciful and kind and will not condemn those that do so because of mental illness or a perversion that arises from they themselves being victims of abuse.

He surely values people with such inclinations who struggle to control their impulses, but part of that struggle is surely not indulging in such lustful thoughts. How successful do you think a dieter will be fantasising of junk food every day?

[William]

Is it evil, or wrong, for someone to fantasize about molesting children if he never acts on it?

Yes.

If finding pleasure in the idea of inflicting pain and immeasurable suffering on innocent chidren isn't evil I dont know what is. That said, I believe God is merciful and kind and will not condemn those that do so because of mental illness or a perversion that arises from they themselves being victims of abuse.

He surely values people with such inclinations who struggle to control their impulses, but part of that struggle is surely not indulging in such lustful thoughts. How successful do you think a dieter will be fantasising of junk food every day?

Should the OPQ be edited to read:
"'Is it evil, or wrong, for someone to fantasize every day about inflicting pain and immeasurable suffering on innocent children if he never acts on it?"
?

When we change the answer we change the question.

[Adonai Yahweh]

Is it evil, or wrong, for someone to fantasize about molesting children if he never acts on it?

Yes it is , your actions are heavily influenced by your thought process , exercising self-control starts from the mind meaning that you must choose to actively engage or disengage certain thoughts , also if you are entertaining such thought processes there is a high probability that you will act on it , because if a molester left in a room alone with children with no adults around . Why would he not give in to his fantasies since there is no one to stop him and he can also frighten the child not to report it . Instead we should encourage such individuals to receive psychological help , many molesters were victims themselves when they were children . Thats why its important to encourage individuals that have gone through childhood trauma to seek psychological help urgently , to end the cycle of trauma .