Parasites and Darwin

[Rose2020]

Entymology interests me and I have been reading a lot recently. I am both fascinated and horrified especially at the things that parasites do, not only to humans but within insect and animal lives. There truly is appalling stuff going on! Like organisms slowly eating other organisms alive.

I read that Darwin himself had a real crisis of conscience about this. He wondered how a loving creator could have done made this so.

I too am pondering on this, as a committed Christian. How in this world everything consumes everything. In my humble opinion I trust that this must be the only way the balance of nature can be maintained. Yet did it have to be so very cruel? I cannot blame people for doubting God.

[Tcg]

Moderator Clarification

Threads created in any of the debate subforums need to include a question for debate. Would it be accurate to conclude that yours is "Yet did it have to be so very cruel?"

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[Replying to Rose2020 in post #1]

[Rose2020]

Yes, my question is did God have to make life and nature be so cruel?

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to Rose2020 in post #3]

Yes, my question is did God have to make life and nature be so cruel?

That's just one of the many problems that arise when gods are brought into the picture as creators, and guides for things that happen in nature. But the problem goes away completely when gods are taken out of the picture and nature can proceed via the geological and evolutionary processes that shape Earth and give rise to the diversity of life we see (including parasites, viruses, cancer, and all the other bad things out there). This offers a far better explanation for things than invoking any of the thousands of gods humans have invented over the millennia. It would take a cruel god indeed to choose who gets childhood cancer and never makes it to adulthood, and who does not.

[Jose Fly]

In the context of the arguments from ID creationists, there's a rather significant question here.

ID creationists argue that some features in the biological realm are so complex, it is impossible for them to have evolved by natural means, and therefore an "intelligence" (i.e., a god) must have played some sort of role in their development. So the ID creationists point to things like bacterial flagella, blood clotting systems, and immune responses as examples that "must have been designed".

But wait....there are all sorts of really nasty, terrible things in biology that are just as complex, or even more so. The example I like to point to is the plasmodium parasite that causes malaria. Here is its life cycle...



Pretty complex, eh? So if we apply the ID creationists' reasoning, we must conclude that a god deliberately "designed" plasmodium to infect and kill billions of humans, as well as cause untold suffering in billions more.

IOW, the "designer" is effectively a bio-terrorist. If a person intentionally designed and released such an organism, we wouldn't hesitate for a second to apply that label to them, so certainly it equally applies to a "designer", right?

[Inquirer]

In the context of the arguments from ID creationists, there's a rather significant question here.

ID creationists argue that some features in the biological realm are so complex, it is impossible for them to have evolved by natural means, and therefore an "intelligence" (i.e., a god) must have played some sort of role in their development. So the ID creationists point to things like bacterial flagella, blood clotting systems, and immune responses as examples that "must have been designed".

But wait....there are all sorts of really nasty, terrible things in biology that are just as complex, or even more so. The example I like to point to is the plasmodium parasite that causes malaria. Here is its life cycle...



Pretty complex, eh? So if we apply the ID creationists' reasoning, we must conclude that a god deliberately "designed" plasmodium to infect and kill billions of humans, as well as cause untold suffering in billions more.

IOW, the "designer" is effectively a bio-terrorist. If a person intentionally designed and released such an organism, we wouldn't hesitate for a second to apply that label to them, so certainly it equally applies to a "designer", right?

Yes, God does indeed cause calamity and suffering, it even states that clearly in scripture, why are unaware of this? what made you think otherwise?

[Jose Fly]

Yes, God does indeed cause calamity and suffering, it even states that clearly in scripture, why are unaware of this? what made you think otherwise?

Well, if you want to believe in a god that deliberately causes babies to suffer immense pain and then die, that's your right. It's an extremely sick and demented belief IMO, and certainly not indicative of a "god" that I would praise and worship.

But you do you....

[Inquirer]

Yes, God does indeed cause calamity and suffering, it even states that clearly in scripture, why are unaware of this? what made you think otherwise?

Well, if you want to believe in a god that deliberately causes babies to suffer immense pain and then die, that's your right. It's an extremely sick and demented belief IMO, and certainly not indicative of a "god" that I would praise and worship.

But you do you....

I don't frankly care how you interpret this Jose, I simply told you what is written and asked why you were unaware, please try to remain civil.

[Jose Fly]

Yes, God does indeed cause calamity and suffering, it even states that clearly in scripture, why are unaware of this? what made you think otherwise?

Well, if you want to believe in a god that deliberately causes babies to suffer immense pain and then die, that's your right. It's an extremely sick and demented belief IMO, and certainly not indicative of a "god" that I would praise and worship.

But you do you....

I don't frankly care how you interpret this Jose, I simply told you what is written and asked why you were unaware, please try to remain civil.

Remain civil? Dude, you're the one advocating a god that goes out of its way to torture babies before killing them.

I'm always amused when Christians try and defend the atrocities committed by their God, and the fundamental contradictions that come up as a result. "God loves you" juxtaposed with "God made sure that you would get malaria, suffer, then die", for example. But then, y'all always have the "mysterious ways" card to play, right?

[Inquirer]

Yes, God does indeed cause calamity and suffering, it even states that clearly in scripture, why are unaware of this? what made you think otherwise?

Well, if you want to believe in a god that deliberately causes babies to suffer immense pain and then die, that's your right. It's an extremely sick and demented belief IMO, and certainly not indicative of a "god" that I would praise and worship.

But you do you....

I don't frankly care how you interpret this Jose, I simply told you what is written and asked why you were unaware, please try to remain civil.

Remain civil? Dude, you're the one advocating a god that goes out of its way to torture babies before killing them.

I'm always amused when Christians try and defend the atrocities committed by their God, and the fundamental contradictions that come up as a result. "God loves you" juxtaposed with "God made sure that you would get malaria, suffer, then die", for example. But then, y'all always have the "mysterious ways" card to play, right?

Yes remain civil please, after all that is an expectation made clear in the rules. Once again I told you what was written, if you choose to react emotionally that's your choice but you won't get very far in any discussion by arguing from emotions rather than facts.

That God is in control and nothing happens that God does not permit, is central theme in scripture, that you regard that as committing "atrocities" is not really rational, how can the creator of something commit an atrocity against it? perhaps you've never considered such questions?

Perhaps you're not familiar with the deep philosophical challenges that arise and can only resort to emotions, I don't know but tough subjects require a tough mind.