Entymology interests me and I have been reading a lot recently. I am both fascinated and horrified especially at the things that parasites do, not only to humans but within insect and animal lives. There truly is appalling stuff going on! Like organisms slowly eating other organisms alive.
I read that Darwin himself had a real crisis of conscience about this. He wondered how a loving creator could have done made this so.
I too am pondering on this, as a committed Christian. How in this world everything consumes everything. In my humble opinion I trust that this must be the only way the balance of nature can be maintained. Yet did it have to be so very cruel? I cannot blame people for doubting God.
Parasites and Darwin
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Re: Parasites and Darwin
Post #21I think that the subject is connected with The Problem of Evil.
As in "Is a creator of the biological system we are involved within, therefore cruel, [aka "evil"] for placing us in it?"
As in "Is a creator of the biological system we are involved within, therefore cruel, [aka "evil"] for placing us in it?"
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Re: Parasites and Darwin
Post #22How is the Creator doing something awful to sentient being less of an atrocity than a human being doing it? If I could create a true, sentient AI, then I tortured it, that would be an atrocity.Inquirer wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:19 pm
That God is in control and nothing happens that God does not permit, is central theme in scripture, that you regard that as committing "atrocities" is not really rational, how can the creator of something commit an atrocity against it? perhaps you've never considered such questions?
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Re: Parasites and Darwin
Post #23[Replying to help3434 in post #22]
Even if we limit this creators omniness to a local event [life on Earth] and place the Creator within the planet [therefore giving the Creator form] and through the planet function, human form was brought into existence, the creator is being natural to the circumstance, whereas the human is not.
I think that would depend on the nature of the Creator.How is the Creator doing something awful to sentient being less of an atrocity than a human being doing it?
Even if we limit this creators omniness to a local event [life on Earth] and place the Creator within the planet [therefore giving the Creator form] and through the planet function, human form was brought into existence, the creator is being natural to the circumstance, whereas the human is not.
Lets call a long drawn-out slow death by cancer "torture". Under the natural circumstances, can we really call that an atrocity?If I could create a true, sentient AI, then I tortured it, that would be an atrocity.
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Re: Parasites and Darwin
Post #24[Replying to Clownboat in post #17]
Why do you think things would change to such a degree simply by removing the 'problem' [as you describe] - what gives you that impression?
That is an interesting opinion but is it really the case?Only when parents stop telling their children that there is a god that loves them so much as to send them to heaven, yet hates another so much as to send them to a hell will we ever stop the violence and bloodshed caused by such teachings.
Why do you think things would change to such a degree simply by removing the 'problem' [as you describe] - what gives you that impression?
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Re: Parasites and Darwin
Post #25[Replying to Rose2020 in post #16]
Why not think of the human epoch as being a means to another epoch [AI]?
Why do you think the one must be programed while the other is not?This is far above me to understand, but I can guess a bit. After all, look what we do, we are the cruelest of all living things. Anything that parasites and such do by instinctual programming, we can rival by deliberate intent. We blow each other up to bits, torture, kill, just to maintain territorial rights.
Why not think of the human epoch as being a means to another epoch [AI]?
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Re: Parasites and Darwin
Post #26[Replying to Clownboat in post #17]
I trust that readers can see how indoctrinating children into having such a belief is not something healthy for humans that need to live together in a society. I'm shocked you don't see this yourself to be honest.
Only when parents stop telling their children that there is a god that loves them so much as to send them to heaven, yet hates another so much as to send them to a hell will we ever stop the violence and bloodshed caused by such teachings.
Sure seems to be and I note you stated nothing to question its accuracy.That is an interesting opinion but is it really the case?
Hey son, God loves you and is going to send you to heaven. See William over there? God hates him and is going to send him to hell for eternity.Why do you think things would change to such a degree simply by removing the 'problem' [as you describe] - what gives you that impression?
I trust that readers can see how indoctrinating children into having such a belief is not something healthy for humans that need to live together in a society. I'm shocked you don't see this yourself to be honest.
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Re: Parasites and Darwin
Post #27Well of course this all boils down to the definition of "atrocity" doesn't it. If you define appropriately then yes God commits atrocities if you define it some other way he does not.help3434 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 12:30 pmHow is the Creator doing something awful to sentient being less of an atrocity than a human being doing it? If I could create a true, sentient AI, then I tortured it, that would be an atrocity.Inquirer wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:19 pm
That God is in control and nothing happens that God does not permit, is central theme in scripture, that you regard that as committing "atrocities" is not really rational, how can the creator of something commit an atrocity against it? perhaps you've never considered such questions?
Nobody has yet explained though how God can possibly do anything morally wrong, morality exists within human society which God created, how can one be accused of moral wrongdoing when one exists outside of that created system?
If I make a robot and amuse myself with it, then break it up one day because I want to, am I doing a moral wrong? Can a thing I create gain authority over me? tell me what is right and wrong?
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Re: Parasites and Darwin
Post #28We have a deity who creates sentient beings in its own image with feelings, conscience and sense of morality who then proceeds to have a relationship with these beings. It then decides that it can simply destroy these beings because it assumes a right to do so as their creator. Sorry, but that doesn't wash. God the father should have no more right to destroy his children than a human father has to destroy his or those of anyone else.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
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Re: Parasites and Darwin
Post #292,022 years since we started watching the clock, and this still hasta be told to presumably grown up folks.brunumb wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:31 pmWe have a deity who creates sentient beings in its own image with feelings, conscience and sense of morality who then proceeds to have a relationship with these beings. It then decides that it can simply destroy these beings because it assumes a right to do so as their creator. Sorry, but that doesn't wash. God the father should have no more right to destroy his children than a human father has to destroy his or those of anyone else.
When we worship something so much that we can excuse murder, we've lost our humanity.
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Re: Parasites and Darwin
Post #30I was just prompted to look up the definition of parasite:
- someone or something that resembles a biological parasite in living off of, being dependent on, or exploiting another while giving little or nothing in return.
Darned if Jehovah/Yahweh/God doesn't actually fit that definition.
- someone or something that resembles a biological parasite in living off of, being dependent on, or exploiting another while giving little or nothing in return.
Darned if Jehovah/Yahweh/God doesn't actually fit that definition.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.