Okay, Let's Cut To The Chase!

[POI]

Dear Christians of all flavor(s),

I trust it is no surprise there exists a populous here, which lay claim to 'atheism', 'deism', or maybe other... In a nutshell, for me, this ultimately means I do not believe any such claimed Christian God exists - trying though as I might.... Which-is-to-mean, I was raised in a Christian house hold. However, after much study, I cannot get myself to belief such a claimed agent actually exists. Chalk it up, ultimately, to the topic of 'divine hiddenness' I guess...?

It is also evident there exists devout 'Christians' in this arena, of all flavors, who may feel they are 'fighting the good fight'; by defending their belief(s)/faith/rationale in the assertion of the existence to the "Christian God".

That being said, I am laying down the gauntlet, so-to-speak... Some here, as well as outside of here, are as sure as anything, that not only does God exist, but the Christian God! Well, I politely disagree. Meaning, I don't believe the "Christian based" assertion/claim.

I can't imagine this request will be anything new. Nor, can I imagine that I will encounter any new sort of enlightenment. But, being this is a rather large and important topic; I will continue to search, optimistically, that there exists some sort of 'concrete evidence(s)' to demonstrate that not only a God exists ---> but also the Christian God.

For Debate:

Please demonstrate the mere existence of the Christian God?

[TRANSPONDER]

I think we have seen it

The Bible
The success of Christianity
The Disciples would not die for a lie.

[POI]

I think we have seen it

The Bible
The success of Christianity
The Disciples would not die for a lie.

Yea, I've been presented with these arguments. All of which have not changed my current status of unbelief. Do you Christians have anything else, which you feel might instead convince me, as a current unbeliever? Or, if you don't, maybe please instead explain why the ones presented by 'Transponder' are sufficient for belief in the Christian God?

[Tcg]

I think we have seen it

The Bible
The success of Christianity
The Disciples would not die for a lie.

Yea, I've been presented with these arguments. All of which have not changed my current status of unbelief. Do you Christians have anything else, which you feel might instead convince me, as a current unbeliever? Or, if you don't, maybe please instead explain why the ones presented by 'Transponder' are sufficient for belief in the Christian God?

I'm pretty sure TRANSPONDER is not a Christian. I suspect TRANSPONDER was simply providing an example of some of the typical answers we may expect.


Tcg

[POI]

I think we have seen it

The Bible
The success of Christianity
The Disciples would not die for a lie.

Yea, I've been presented with these arguments. All of which have not changed my current status of unbelief. Do you Christians have anything else, which you feel might instead convince me, as a current unbeliever? Or, if you don't, maybe please instead explain why the ones presented by 'Transponder' are sufficient for belief in the Christian God?

I'm pretty sure TRANSPONDER is not a Christian. I suspect TRANSPONDER was simply providing an example of some of the typical answers we may expect.


Tcg

Yes, I guess I was not clear I'm aware that "Transponder" is too likely an unbeliever. I'm asking Christians if they have anything else to add, or, if they instead wish to simply feed off of what "Transponder" has already conveyed

[Purple Knight]

I think we have seen it

The Bible

The success of Christianity

The Disciples would not die for a lie.

This is a more curt reply than I usually make, but it illustrates (literally) that 1) it is possible for people to write things that are false, 2) great successes can be scams and 3) how even well-meaning people can be deceived, misled, or mistaken, and in fact can die for a lie.

[Tcg]

I think we have seen it

The Bible
The success of Christianity
The Disciples would not die for a lie.

Yea, I've been presented with these arguments. All of which have not changed my current status of unbelief. Do you Christians have anything else, which you feel might instead convince me, as a current unbeliever? Or, if you don't, maybe please instead explain why the ones presented by 'Transponder' are sufficient for belief in the Christian God?

I'm pretty sure TRANSPONDER is not a Christian. I suspect TRANSPONDER was simply providing an example of some of the typical answers we may expect.


Tcg

Yes, I guess I was not clear I'm aware that "Transponder" is too likely an unbeliever. I'm asking Christians if they have anything else to add, or, if they instead wish to simply feed off of what "Transponder" has already conveyed

Ah yes, sorry about that. I hope we get some attempts from Christians to address your query. Forgive my pessimism, but I won't hold my breath.


Tcg

[POI]

I think we have seen it

The Bible

The success of Christianity

The Disciples would not die for a lie.

This is a more curt reply than I usually make, but it illustrates (literally) that 1) it is possible for people to write things that are false, 2) great successes can be scams and 3) how even well-meaning people can be deceived, misled, or mistaken, and in fact can die for a lie.

THANK YOU! This why I ask... Do you Christians, (which may not yet have responded), have anything to offer, (or), does it boil down to the topic of 'faith' ---- which can ultimately just as easily be applied to ANY other assertion?

[Purple Knight]

THANK YOU! This why I ask... Do you Christians, (which may not yet have responded), have anything to offer, (or), does it boil down to the topic of 'faith' ---- which can ultimately just as easily be applied to ANY other assertion?

The one thing I can say for them is that Christianity has at least proven over time that adopting the belief doesn't win you a Darwin award. This doesn't mean it is true but it might mean that it's still rational to believe it.

For example, you might have a population of extremely rational, logical individuals who probably well know that God isn't likely to exist, but they all recognise that if we all behave as if there is one (in other words, not screwing one another over even when we logically should) then, we all benefit. But because there is not really this Great Omniscient Rewarder and Punisher, people are essentially stuck with the otherwise logical conclusion that they ought to cheat whenever they can get away with it.

I'm not putting it past people to have this going on in the back of their heads.

And I have shown how intentionally believing something untrue can actually be rational.

[POI]

THANK YOU! This why I ask... Do you Christians, (which may not yet have responded), have anything to offer, (or), does it boil down to the topic of 'faith' ---- which can ultimately just as easily be applied to ANY other assertion?

The one thing I can say for them is that Christianity has at least proven over time that adopting the belief doesn't win you a Darwin award. This doesn't mean it is true but it might mean that it's still rational to believe it.

For example, you might have a population of extremely rational, logical individuals who probably well know that God isn't likely to exist, but they all recognise that if we all behave as if there is one (in other words, not screwing one another over even when we logically should) then, we all benefit. But because there is not really this Great Omniscient Rewarder and Punisher, people are essentially stuck with the otherwise logical conclusion that they ought to cheat whenever they can get away with it.

I'm not putting it past people to have this going on in the back of their heads.

And I have shown how intentionally believing something untrue can actually be rational.

Well, my concern here is to establish if such a Christian God DOES exist.

Example: Assuming God exists, and if He ever intervenes in earnest prayer requests, and also wishes to have personal relationships with His creation, maybe Christians can pray for God to provide me, and all other unbelievers, with sufficient revelation? This way, we then only wrestle with whether or not to follow Him or not. You know, like the Bible suggests it has done in the passed, and/or will do later. But conveniently, NOT NOW.

As stated in the OP, the topic of 'divine hiddenness' appears to be a core topic for someone like myself. I'm sure it may be important to other unbelievers as well.