WHO ARE THE ELECT?

[Eddie Ramos]

There seems to be much confusion among those who hold to a free will doctrine, as to who exactly the elect are. It's not as though this word doesn't appear in the scriptures, because it does, many times. And this word is just as important as every other word in the Bible to help us arrive at correct doctrine. For example, when we look up the word "elect" (eklektos) we discover that it's also translated as "chosen". And this word is used in contexts that speak of choosing a particular person or people. But when it comes to salvation, God uses this word to speak of those whom he has justified by his own blood in the person of Christ.

Regarding the gospel call:
Matthew 20:16 (KJV 1900)
16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen (eklektos).

Regarding the great tribulation:
Matthew 24:22 (KJV 1900)
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s (eklektos) sake those days shall be shortened.

Matthew 24:29–31 (KJV 1900)
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect (eklektos) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Regarding Christ:
Luke 23:35 (KJV 1900)
35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen (eklektos) of God.

Regarding God's salvation plan:
Romans 8:29–34 (KJV 1900)
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. 31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect (eklektos)? It is God that justifieth. 34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

In regards to salvation, the elect are therefore those who have been chosen (elect) of God. In other words, they didn't choose God, God chose them. And knowing who the elect are, helps us to better understand the error of the free will doctrine that teaches that anyone could have chosen to become one of those whom God chose to save.

John 15:16 (KJV 1900)
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Who do you think, according to the scriptures, the elect are?

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to 1213 in post #6]

Who are the righteous and how do they become righteous ?

[Miles]

The elect are those who choose to believe in Jesus as their Saviour from the wages of their sins:

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life.

So the "elect" are "whosoever believeth!"

"Prove" it. Cite the book, chapter, and verse.


As someone once said "There's a far larger qualification that has to be met than just "choosing to believe in Jesus as their Saviour" One has to be CHOSEN."
And just as a matter of beating a dead horse, "elect" is the English word for the Greek "eklektos," which happens to mean "chosen" or "picked out." Of course if you need to cook up some other definition for "elect" in order to make your theology work go right ahead. But first let me turn off the "I care" setting in my brain.

.

[myth-one.com]

The elect are those who choose to believe in Jesus as their Saviour from the wages of their sins:

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life.

So the "elect" are "whosoever believeth!"

"Prove" it. Cite the book, chapter, and verse.

So there's a far larger qualification that has to be met than just "choosing to believe in Jesus as their Saviour" One has to be CHOSEN.

.

Election in Christianity involves God choosing, electing, or picking out a particular person or group of people to a particular task or relationship, especially eternal life.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Christianity divides humanity into two groups of people: believers and nonbelievers.

The group of believers are the group chosen or elected to have everlasting life.

The group of nonbelievers are the group chosen or elected to perish for all eternity.

Book: John
Chapter: Three (3)
Verse: Sixteen (16)

>>> END OF PROOF <<<

[Eddie Ramos]

eddie ram

This also makes salvation equal all across the board for everyone. For men, women, children, mentally handicapped, infants, fetuses, etc.

Could you elaborate a little on this statement please ?

Of course. This means that God's method of true Salvation meant that God could save anyone whom he had predestined to save, at any point in their lifetime. From conception (like John the Baptist) till the last moments of someone's life (like the thief on the cross). This means that there was nothing required of the one being saved (no voluntary or involuntary requirement to keep any part of the law), except to hear the gospel (The Word of God).

[myth-one.com]

eddie ram

This also makes salvation equal all across the board for everyone. For men, women, children, mentally handicapped, infants, fetuses, etc.

Could you elaborate a little on this statement please ?

Of course. This means that God's method of true Salvation meant that God could save anyone whom he had predestined to save, at any point in their lifetime. From conception (like John the Baptist) till the last moments of someone's life (like the thief on the cross). This means that there was nothing required of the one being saved (no voluntary or involuntary requirement to keep any part of the law), except to hear the gospel (The Word of God).

"Salvation" according to Eddie Ramos:

1. Those elected do not have to believe in Jesus Christ to gain salvation.
   
   
2. Those that strongly believe in Jesus Christ as their Saviour have no chance of salvation if they are not one of the predestined elect.
   
   
3. Mankind has no input into deciding their eternity.

<===============================================>

I'll stick with salvation according to Jesus Christ:

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #14]

Okay, what about the mentally handicapped ? Or the deaf and dumb ? Could they be of Gods elect to save and maybe never physically hear the Gospel ?

[Brightfame52]

mythone

"Salvation" according to Eddie Ramos:
Those elected do not have to believe in Jesus Christ to gain salvation.

Those that strongly believe in Jesus Christ as their Saviour have no chance of salvation if they are not one of the predestined elect.

Mankind has no input into deciding their eternity.

I dont believe you are giving an honest or accurate witness here for the poster. Nevertheless to those points,

Those elected are the only ones who will believe in Jesus Christ, thats part of the outcome of election 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Those chosen to salvation are also chosen to believe in Him !

Those who strongly believe in Jesus as you say, do so because they were chosen to salvation and predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ.

And you are correct as to mankind hasn't any input in determining their destiny, that's only Gods prerogative Rom 9 where we read that God has made some individuals to be vessels of wrath, and some individuals to be vessels of mercy, that's Gods right as the Sovereign Potter, and we are His clay. Isa 64:8

But now, O Lord, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

[myth-one.com]

mythone

"Salvation" according to Eddie Ramos:
1 - Those elected do not have to believe in Jesus Christ to gain salvation.

2 - Those that strongly believe in Jesus Christ as their Saviour have no chance of salvation if they are not one of the predestined elect.

3 - Mankind has no input into deciding their eternity.

I dont believe you are giving an honest or accurate witness here for the poster.

Which of those three sentences do you object to?

And you are correct as to mankind hasn't any input in determining their destiny, that's only Gods prerogative

That is absolutely false and non-scriptual!!

You have me confused with someone who understands little or nothing about the Bible and it's purpose.

Every man or woman who ever existed will make their individual, informed, personal decision to accept or reject Jesus as their Savior.

The decision is out of God's "hands"!

God has no choice but to grant everlasting life to everyone who believes in Jesus as their Savior!

And God has no choice but to grant everlasting death to everyone who choses to reject Jesus as their Savior!

It's called a covenant or testament between God and mankind.

God must honor the covenants which He makes.

It is best described in the following verse:

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[Eddie Ramos]

[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #14]

Okay, what about the mentally handicapped ? Or the deaf and dumb ? Could they be of Gods elect to save and maybe never physically hear the Gospel ?

The only requirement for salvation was to be under the hearing of the Word of God (the gospel). But God doesn't necessarily explain all the details involved in how that works, because hearing, doesn't always mean physical hearing, but can also mean spiritual hearing.

Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900)
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

In other words, faith, which is a fruit of the Spirit (meaning, it's a result of having the Spirit. i.e. born again) comes by hearing, but not by physical hearing. The fruit of the spirit can only come after salvation has taken place, therefore the hearing Romans 10:17 is speaking of, must be spiritual hearing. And this spiritual hearing, comes only by the Word of God which was preached into all the world.
Let me show you one example of physical hearing vs spiritual hearing.

John 8:43 (KJV 1900)
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Now, Jesus was dialoguing with the Pharisees, and in this dialogue, we can see that they could certainly hear Jesus' words, but they only heard with their physical ears. What they could not hear with was their spiritual ears because they were spiritually dead. This is what the deaf man whose ears were opened point to, which is salvation.

Mark 7:32–35 (KJV 1900)
32 And they bring unto him one that was deaf, and had an impediment in his speech; and they beseech him to put his hand upon him. 33 And he took him aside from the multitude, and put his fingers into his ears, and he spit, and touched his tongue; 34 And looking up to heaven, he sighed, and saith unto him, Ephphatha, that is, Be opened. 35 And straightway his ears were opened, and the string of his tongue was loosed, and he spake plain.

But not just the deaf, but God also used many physical situations to portray the same truth of salvation.

Matthew 11:5 (KJV 1900)
5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

All of these typify the elect of God in their spiritual condition before (like being deaf) and then after salvation (like being able to hear).
Therefore, when the Bible speaks of hearing, we must understand, in light of the context of the Bible, what type of hearing is in view in each instance. Anyone who is not saved, does not have the ability to hear spiritual truths from the Word of God (Jesus). They can only learn from the Bible that which is moral and historical, but not spiritual. Christ also said this to the Pharisees in his same dialogue with them, and they typified those who thought they were children of God, but never were.

John 8:47 (KJV 1900)
47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

[Eddie Ramos]

eddie ram

This also makes salvation equal all across the board for everyone. For men, women, children, mentally handicapped, infants, fetuses, etc.

Could you elaborate a little on this statement please ?

Of course. This means that God's method of true Salvation meant that God could save anyone whom he had predestined to save, at any point in their lifetime. From conception (like John the Baptist) till the last moments of someone's life (like the thief on the cross). This means that there was nothing required of the one being saved (no voluntary or involuntary requirement to keep any part of the law), except to hear the gospel (The Word of God).

"Salvation" according to Eddie Ramos:

1. Those elected do not have to believe in Jesus Christ to gain salvation.
   
   
2. Those that strongly believe in Jesus Christ as their Saviour have no chance of salvation if they are not one of the predestined elect.
   
   
3. Mankind has no input into deciding their eternity.

<===============================================>

I'll stick with salvation according to Jesus Christ:

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I cannot make you understand that which you don't. That is not my job. You can hold as tight as you want to to John 3:16 and think that this verse has all the answers for you, but a serious Bible student would never depend on one scripture and be as sure as sure can be about what it's declaring, without first examining the rest of the Bible for complete agreement. If you want to believe in salvation by works by placing your type of understanding on John 3:16, then it's because that is all you are able to see. I cannot change that. And God's true salvation method is not according to me, but according to the Bible alone. If you don't like what the Bible declares, then your issue is with God not with me. Here are the three points you attributed to me claiming:

1. "Those elected do not have to believe in Jesus Christ to gain salvation".
Correct. Those elected believe (have faith) because they have already been granted salvation. Faith is a fruit, or a result of having, the Spirit, not the other way around.

2. "Those that strongly believe in Jesus Christ as their Saviour have no chance of salvation if they are not one of the predestined elect".

Correct. And I don't read anywhere in the scriptures that "strongly" believing ever saved anyone. Perhaps you can provide a verse for that. What I do read is of plenty of people believing on Jesus Christ, yet not having become saved. This is God's way of teaching us that anyone who trusts in their own act of believing on Christ, is still condemned for trusting in a work of righteousness they have done. According to most people who hold to the doctrine of "believe and you shall be saved", they take this to mean that they must actually do this in order to bring about their salvation. They think they must, of their own accord, believe on Christ and that's that, they have gained eternal life. But these people are not paying attention to everything else the Bible has to teach us on the matter, before arriving at a conclusion that agrees with the Bible as a whole. Here is one example (there are more) of someone who did exactly what Paul said in the book of acts to the Philippian jailer who asked an apparently straightforward question, and was given an apparently straightforward answer (or at least people think so) of, "believe and thou shalt be saved". Let's take a look at that example of a man named Simon, and let's see if he did exactly that which Paul stated needed to be done in order to be saved.

Acts 8:12–13 (KJV 1900)
12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

Here we see that Simon followed suit and believed and was baptized. So, there is no question now that Simon became a child of God for doing exactly what needs to in order to become saved, right? Well, let's see what happens.

Acts 8:18–23 (KJV 1900)
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, 19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. 20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. 21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. 23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

All of this language which was used to describe Simon's condition teaches us that his spiritual condition never changed even though he believed and was baptized of his own free will. Amazing how God will teach us if we will but listen to his Word and search for harmony.

3. "Mankind has no input into deciding their eternity".

Correct. Mankind's eternal destiny was sealed the day Adam and Eve sinned. This is what Hebrews 9:27 and Romans 5:12 & 18 assures us of. God was perfectly just in allowing mankind to completely perish for their sin. This is why the only time mankind could have had a say in their eternal fate, was in the garden of Eden before the fall. All they had to do was obey the one law that was given them. But they didn't. But God is not only a righteous judge, but also a merciful God. And rather than letting mankind perish, he decided to save some. But he couldn't just wave a magic wand and make their sin disappear. Not at all. Because God is a righteous God, he bound himself to his own law which stated that sin must be paid for by death (Rom 6:23). And so, he chose, out of the good pleasure of his own will (Eph 1:5) those whom he would predestinate unto salvation. These were the elect. And in order to save them from eternal death, he laid their sins on his own son, Jesus Christ, who bore their sins and was condemned as a sinner on their behalf and suffered the penalty his own law demanded which was death. But because he is God, death could not hold him and so he raised up from the dead, completely satisfying the demands of the law on behalf of his elect only. The rest of the world remained (justly) under the penalty of death for their own sin.