WHO ARE THE ELECT?

[Eddie Ramos]

There seems to be much confusion among those who hold to a free will doctrine, as to who exactly the elect are. It's not as though this word doesn't appear in the scriptures, because it does, many times. And this word is just as important as every other word in the Bible to help us arrive at correct doctrine. For example, when we look up the word "elect" (eklektos) we discover that it's also translated as "chosen". And this word is used in contexts that speak of choosing a particular person or people. But when it comes to salvation, God uses this word to speak of those whom he has justified by his own blood in the person of Christ.

Regarding the gospel call:
Matthew 20:16 (KJV 1900)
16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen (eklektos).

Regarding the great tribulation:
Matthew 24:22 (KJV 1900)
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s (eklektos) sake those days shall be shortened.

Matthew 24:29–31 (KJV 1900)
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect (eklektos) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Regarding Christ:
Luke 23:35 (KJV 1900)
35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen (eklektos) of God.

Regarding God's salvation plan:
Romans 8:29–34 (KJV 1900)
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. 31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect (eklektos)? It is God that justifieth. 34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

In regards to salvation, the elect are therefore those who have been chosen (elect) of God. In other words, they didn't choose God, God chose them. And knowing who the elect are, helps us to better understand the error of the free will doctrine that teaches that anyone could have chosen to become one of those whom God chose to save.

John 15:16 (KJV 1900)
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Who do you think, according to the scriptures, the elect are?

[1213]

[Replying to 1213 in post #6]

Who are the righteous and how do they become righteous ?

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become God's children, to those who believe in his name: who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 1:12-13

It is the spirit who gives life. The flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and are life.
John 6:63

[JehovahsWitness]

WHO ARE THE ELECT?

The "elect" are the 144,000 spirit anointed born again Christian, chosen by God to rule over this our planet earth.



JW

[Brightfame52]

mythone

That is absolutely false and non-scriptual!!

Its absolutely true and very scriptural. Man has no say so in Salvation ! Our only hope of Salvation is if God graciously chose us in Christ before the foundation, and to be privileged to partake of His redemptive death Eph 1:1-7

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

[Brightfame52]

ed ramos

The only requirement for salvation was to be under the hearing of the Word of God (the gospel). But God doesn't necessarily explain all the details involved in how that works, because hearing, doesn't always mean physical hearing, but can also mean spiritual hearing.

I would say that the requirement for Salvation is that God chose us in Christ Jesus before the foundation, and that Jesus in time died for our sins. Now I believe everyone those 2 requirements have been met for, will in time, as the providence of God has so moved according to Gods purpose, they will be given Spiritual life by the Spirit, thus prearing them for the hearing of the Gospel of their Salvation. I do believe the hearing is Spiritual and not physical, and that God can communicate it to a mentally handicapped person, or even a fetus in the womb, if they be elect. I do believe however that the normal way God does it, is by bringing the Gospel providentially to an spiritually born elect sinner so they can hear the good news. God sends it to them who fear Him, that fear being an by product of regeneration Acts 13:26

Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.

In other words, faith, which is a fruit of the Spirit (meaning, it's a result of having the Spirit. i.e. born again) comes by hearing, but not by physical hearing. The fruit of the spirit can only come after salvation has taken place, therefore the hearing Romans 10:17 is speaking of, must be spiritual hearing. And this spiritual hearing, comes only by the Word of God which was preached into all the world.
Let me show you one example of physical hearing vs spiritual hearing.

Totally in agreement with this, you should know that by my previous response.

Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900)
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

In other words, faith, which is a fruit of the Spirit (meaning, it's a result of having the Spirit. i.e. born again) comes by hearing, but not by physical hearing. The fruit of the spirit can only come after salvation has taken place, therefore the hearing Romans 10:17 is speaking of, must be spiritual hearing. And this spiritual hearing, comes only by the Word of God which was preached into all the world.
Let me show you one example of physical hearing vs spiritual hearing.

John 8:43 (KJV 1900)
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Now, Jesus was dialoguing with the Pharisees, and in this dialogue, we can see that they could certainly hear Jesus' words, but they only heard with their physical ears. What they could not hear with was their spiritual ears because they were spiritually dead. This is what the deaf man whose ears were opened point to, which is salvation.

Mark 7:32–35 (KJV 1900)
32 And they bring unto him one that was deaf, and had an impediment in his speech; and they beseech him to put his hand upon him. 33 And he took him aside from the multitude, and put his fingers into his ears, and he spit, and touched his tongue; 34 And looking up to heaven, he sighed, and saith unto him, Ephphatha, that is, Be opened. 35 And straightway his ears were opened, and the string of his tongue was loosed, and he spake plain.

But not just the deaf, but God also used many physical situations to portray the same truth of salvation.

Matthew 11:5 (KJV 1900)
5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

All of these typify the elect of God in their spiritual condition before (like being deaf) and then after salvation (like being able to hear).
Therefore, when the Bible speaks of hearing, we must understand, in light of the context of the Bible, what type of hearing is in view in each instance. Anyone who is not saved, does not have the ability to hear spiritual truths from the Word of God (Jesus). They can only learn from the Bible that which is moral and historical, but not spiritual. Christ also said this to the Pharisees in his same dialogue with them, and they typified those who thought they were children of God, but never were.

John 8:47 (KJV 1900)
47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Agreed. Jn 8:43,47 are two of my favorites that point out that one must be born of God first in order to hear and understand the word of God spiritually. Also Jn 18:37

Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to 1213 in post #21]

I believe the righteous are those for whom Christ acted as a Covenant Surety for, and when He obeyed God unto death, they were made righteous Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

I also believe the many here are Gods elect !

[myth-one.com]

"Salvation" according to Eddie Ramos:

1. Those elected do not have to believe in Jesus Christ to gain salvation.
   
   
2. Those that strongly believe in Jesus Christ as their Saviour have no chance of salvation if they are not one of the predestined elect.
   
   
3. Mankind has no input into deciding their eternity.

<===============================================>

1. "Those elected do not have to believe in Jesus Christ to gain salvation".

Correct.

2. "Those that strongly believe in Jesus Christ as their Saviour have no chance of salvation if they are not one of the predestined elect".

Correct.

3. "Mankind has no input into deciding their eternity".

Correct.

OK, we are in agreement that you believe that a belief in Jesus results in saving no one.

No takes back.

<===============================================>

Question: Why didn't Jesus understand your plan?

He mistakenly believed that He was created for the purpose of tasting death for all mankind, and that those who believe in Him will gain everlasting life.

[myth-one.com]

Jn 8:43,47 are two of my favorites that point out that one must be born of God first in order to hear and understand the word of God spiritually.

There are natural (fleshy) bodies and spiritual bodies.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit (God) is spirit.

All natural bodies will perish, while all spiritual bodies live eternally.

The reward of the saved is being born again of the Spirit as a spirit which lives forever.

If one is born of God into everlasting life before understanding the scriptures, then they no longer need to understand the scriptures in order to gain everlasting life -- right?

[Brightfame52]

Jn 8:43,47 are two of my favorites that point out that one must be born of God first in order to hear and understand the word of God spiritually.

There are natural (fleshy) bodies and spiritual bodies.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit (God) is spirit.

All natural bodies will perish, while all spiritual bodies live eternally.

The reward of the saved is being born again of the Spirit as a spirit which lives forever.

If one is born of God into everlasting life before understanding the scriptures, then they no longer need to understand the scriptures in order to gain everlasting life -- right?

I dont know what you talking about !

[Eddie Ramos]

Jn 8:43,47 are two of my favorites that point out that one must be born of God first in order to hear and understand the word of God spiritually.

There are natural (fleshy) bodies and spiritual bodies.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit (God) is spirit.

All natural bodies will perish, while all spiritual bodies live eternally.

The reward of the saved is being born again of the Spirit as a spirit which lives forever.

If one is born of God into everlasting life before understanding the scriptures, then they no longer need to understand the scriptures in order to gain everlasting life -- right?

I dont know what you talking about !

Then welcome to the club.

[myth-one.com]

Jn 8:43,47 are two of my favorites that point out that one must be born of God first in order to hear and understand the word of God spiritually.

There are natural (fleshy) bodies and spiritual bodies.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit (God) is spirit.

All natural bodies will perish, while all spiritual bodies live eternally.

The reward of the saved is being born again of the Spirit as a spirit which lives forever.

If one is born of God into everlasting life before understanding the scriptures, then they no longer need to understand the scriptures in order to gain everlasting life -- right?

I dont know what you talking about !

Then welcome to the club.

Man is a natural being and God and the angels are immortal spiritual beings.

The Bible details how man may become a spiritual being within the Kingdom of God.

Man enters the kingdom of man by being born of another natural flesh bodied being.

One enters the spiritual Kingdom of God by being born again of the Spirit (God) as a spiritual bodied being.

<===============================================>

Brightfame52 claims that "one must be born of God first."

If one is born of God first, they become a spiritual bodied being immediately at that time -- and have to do nothing more.

And once born as a spirit, there is no exit from the spiritual world -- as spirits are immortal..

In creating replacements for the angels who left their first estate, why would God directly create them immortal and risk being stuck with more rebels for eternity?

So God created mankind a little lower than the angels (mortal), gives them a taste of life, and allows each to extend their life to eternity or to choose to opt out of life eternally.

Being born of God first would be a poor design.

But God designed everything as "good."

So that is why man is not born of God first as the angels were.