IF GOD SO LOVED "EVERYONE", THEN WHY DID HE HATE ESAU?

[Eddie Ramos]

It seems like John 3:16 is by far the most widely memorized verse among people who know anything about the Bible because it speaks about God loving the world. While this verse may seem like "good news" to everyone who reads it, it does not stand alone from the rest of the scriptures. No verse does.

So, as most people are glad to memorize that verse, what happens when they come across a verse like this?:

Romans 9:13 (KJV) 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Malachi 1:2-3 (KJV)
2 I have loved you, saith the LORD.
Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us?
Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD:
yet I loved Jacob,
3 And I hated Esau,
and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Psalms 5:5 (KJV)
5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight:
thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Psalms 11:5 (KJV)
5 The LORD trieth the righteous:
but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Psalms 5:6 (KJV)
6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing:
the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

How does John 3:16 look in light of these passages? Did God change? No, God does not change (Malachi 3:6). This teaches us that we can't just focus on John 3:16 and conclude that God's love for the world, in the giving of his Son, is actually not referring to every individual in the world (because there are passages that tell us about God hating others), but rather John 3:16 is referring to certain people within the world. These certain people are also known as God's beloved which means to be loved.

1 John 4:10-11 (KJV) 10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

The beloved are thise who were chosen for salvation, those who were called to be saints.

Romans 1:7 (KJV) 7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

My question for this thread is: Can you see that the Bible, on one hand, speaks of God's love in conjunction with those whose sins were laid on Christ? And on the other hand, can you see that those who were hated, are those whose sins were not laid upon Christ? This is what it means to be hated. It means that you have to pay for your own sins by your own death.

[onewithhim]

It depends in what spirit you read those incredible words.

God does not love those who are wicked, that is impossible.
Nobody can or should do that. God loves us all as His precious creations. So much so, that He sent His son to die for us. Who do you love so much that you would do that for them?
God wants us to know him and love Him willingly. That offer and choice is open to all. Any wicked man must repent before he can benefit from God's love.

God loves even the wicked, and he waits for them to turn around and accept the conditions for salvation.

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16, KJV)

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men consider slackness; but is longsuffering to us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (2Peter 3:9, KJV)

[onewithhim]

My question for this thread is: Can you see that the Bible, on one hand, speaks of God's love in conjunction with those whose sins were laid on Christ? And on the other hand, can you see that those who were hated, are those whose sins were not laid upon Christ? This is what it means to be hated. It means that you have to pay for your own sins by your own death.

Romans 9:13 - I believe the context of this passage is about God’s election of how people would be saved. God didn’t (but could have) chosen that “all Jewish people will be saved” or “those who perfectly follow the Law will be saved” but instead chose “all those who put their trust in the Messiah will be saved.” So, the love/hate here is about choosing/loving Jacob as the Messianic line and Esau not being that line. It had to be one or the other.

Malachi 1:2-3, Psalm 5:5-6, Psalm 11:5 are about hating wicked deeds and bringing consequences upon those that unrepentantly go about doing them.

John 3:16 and 1 John 4:10-11 are about how God still loves these (i.e., all) individuals, wishing that they would turn from their wickedness. God, knowing they can’t do this on their own, sent the Messiah on our behalf. This salvation comes to whoever trusts in the Messiah (John 3:18, 1 John 4:15).

Paul addresses Romans to people who have trusted in the Messiah.

So, God hates our wickedness but loves the wicked enough to give us a sure way out of that life into a better life. If we remain wicked, trying (and failing) to be good on our own, then we are facing that righteous, loving hatred. God’s love is fulfilled by those who accept what Christ does for us, as we are transformed into truly loving people.

Well said!

[Mae von H]

God loved the man Esau and gave him and his descendants land, same as Jacob. But centuries later they became evil. That’s when the prophet said God hated that evil people.

[Avoice]

Your question is backwards. The christian testament must be upheld by the Hebrew Scriptures (OT) Not the othe other way around. The root must support the branch. The branch (Christianity) can not be contrary to the root.

Your question should say: God hated Esau so why does Christianity say God loved "everyone" ?
You are accusing the wrong book of being the lie.

You see: The Christian testament cant be true and the Hebrew bible (OT) be a lie. If the Hebrew bible is a lie then Christianity is a lie by default. Christians need the Jews in order for their testament to exist. The Jews dont need Christians.

Christians can not question the truth of the Hebrew Scriptures. Because Christianity (an offshoot of judaism) will be the first to fall off and die if you claim the water in the root is bad.

So....it is the Christian testament that you should examine.

[2ndpillar2]

God loved the man Esau and gave him and his descendants land, same as Jacob. But centuries later they became evil. That’s when the prophet said God hated that evil people.

God did not give Essau/Edom land because he loved him, he gave him land (Mt Seir) to fulfill Scripture, as indicated in the book of Obadiah. The Koran does not say the Arabs originated with Ishmael and indicates that there is a 26 un delineated generation gap between Ishmael and the Arabs. Islam originated in Petra, the city of worldwide traders, and the house of Allah, the Kaaba, where all the gods of the worldwide traders were kept. Mecca was a desolate waste until around the 70th year of the supposed Muslim empire, when the Nabataeans moved out of Petra, as indicated in the later written Islamic narrative/history, which was written much later by mostly Persians in the area of Baghdad.

[Mae von H]

God loved the man Esau and gave him and his descendants land, same as Jacob. But centuries later they became evil. That’s when the prophet said God hated that evil people.

God did not give Essau/Edom land because he loved him, he gave him land (Mt Seir) to fulfill Scripture, as indicated in the book of Obadiah.

What scripture? Never heard of this.

The Koran does not say the Arabs originated with Ishmael and indicates that there is a 26 un delineated generation gap between Ishmael and the Arabs. Islam originated in Petra, the city of worldwide traders, and the house of Allah, the Kaaba, where all the gods of the worldwide traders were kept. Mecca was a desolate waste until around the 70th year of the supposed Muslim empire, when the Nabataeans moved out of Petra, as indicated in the later written Islamic narrative/history, which was written much later by mostly Persians in the area of Baghdad.

None of that has any bearing on the discussion.

God gave Esau land because He loved him and protected that land too.

[2ndpillar2]

God loved the man Esau and gave him and his descendants land, same as Jacob. But centuries later they became evil. That’s when the prophet said God hated that evil people.

God did not give Essau/Edom land because he loved him, he gave him land (Mt Seir) to fulfill Scripture, as indicated in the book of Obadiah.

What scripture? Never heard of this.

The Koran does not say the Arabs originated with Ishmael and indicates that there is a 26 un delineated generation gap between Ishmael and the Arabs. Islam originated in Petra, the city of worldwide traders, and the house of Allah, the Kaaba, where all the gods of the worldwide traders were kept. Mecca was a desolate waste until around the 70th year of the supposed Muslim empire, when the Nabataeans moved out of Petra, as indicated in the later written Islamic narrative/history, which was written much later by mostly Persians in the area of Baghdad.

None of that has any bearing on the discussion.

God gave Esau land because He loved him and protected that land too.

That land will be protected until the "day of the LORD" when it is taken away and given to Israel (Obadiah 1:15-18)


Obadiah 1:1 & 15-18 For the day of the Lord is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.

1 The vision of Obadiah. Thus saith the Lord God concerning Edom; We have heard a rumour from the Lord, and an ambassador is sent among the heathen, Arise ye, and let us rise up against her in battle.

16 For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been.

17 But upon mount Zion shall be deliverance, and there shall be holiness; and the house of Jacob shall possess their possessions.

18 And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the Lord hath spoken it.

[Mae von H]

God loved the man Esau and gave him and his descendants land, same as Jacob. But centuries later they became evil. That’s when the prophet said God hated that evil people.

God did not give Essau/Edom land because he loved him, he gave him land (Mt Seir) to fulfill Scripture, as indicated in the book of Obadiah.

What scripture? Never heard of this.

The Koran does not say the Arabs originated with Ishmael and indicates that there is a 26 un delineated generation gap between Ishmael and the Arabs. Islam originated in Petra, the city of worldwide traders, and the house of Allah, the Kaaba, where all the gods of the worldwide traders were kept. Mecca was a desolate waste until around the 70th year of the supposed Muslim empire, when the Nabataeans moved out of Petra, as indicated in the later written Islamic narrative/history, which was written much later by mostly Persians in the area of Baghdad.

None of that has any bearing on the discussion.

God gave Esau land because He loved him and protected that land too.

That land will be protected until the "day of the LORD" when it is taken away and given to Israel (Obadiah 1:15-18)

That’s what I said. God loved the man Esau and gave him land and protected him. Thanks! (Are you aware that God said the same to Israel regarding keeping the land?)

Obadiah 1:1 & 15-18 For the day of the Lord is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.

1 The vision of Obadiah. Thus saith the Lord God concerning Edom; We have heard a rumour from the Lord, and an ambassador is sent among the heathen, Arise ye, and let us rise up against her in battle.

16 For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been.

17 But upon mount Zion shall be deliverance, and there shall be holiness; and the house of Jacob shall possess their possessions.

18 And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the Lord hath spoken it.

Uh, the man Esau was long dead when this prophet lived. Long dead.

[2ndpillar2]

God loved the man Esau and gave him and his descendants land, same as Jacob. But centuries later they became evil. That’s when the prophet said God hated that evil people.

God did not give Essau/Edom land because he loved him, he gave him land (Mt Seir) to fulfill Scripture, as indicated in the book of Obadiah.

What scripture? Never heard of this.

The Koran does not say the Arabs originated with Ishmael and indicates that there is a 26 un delineated generation gap between Ishmael and the Arabs. Islam originated in Petra, the city of worldwide traders, and the house of Allah, the Kaaba, where all the gods of the worldwide traders were kept. Mecca was a desolate waste until around the 70th year of the supposed Muslim empire, when the Nabataeans moved out of Petra, as indicated in the later written Islamic narrative/history, which was written much later by mostly Persians in the area of Baghdad.

None of that has any bearing on the discussion.

God gave Esau land because He loved him and protected that land too.

That land will be protected until the "day of the LORD" when it is taken away and given to Israel (Obadiah 1:15-18)

That’s what I said. God loved the man Esau and gave him land and protected him. Thanks! (Are you aware that God said the same to Israel regarding keeping the land?)

Obadiah 1:1 & 15-18 For the day of the Lord is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.

1 The vision of Obadiah. Thus saith the Lord God concerning Edom; We have heard a rumour from the Lord, and an ambassador is sent among the heathen, Arise ye, and let us rise up against her in battle.

16 For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been.

17 But upon mount Zion shall be deliverance, and there shall be holiness; and the house of Jacob shall possess their possessions.

18 And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the Lord hath spoken it.

Uh, the man Esau was long dead when this prophet lived. Long dead.

Obadiah gave prophecy for the time of the "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32) when Essau/Edom, will be destroyed, and lose his property to Jacob/Israel. Obadiah is dead, but the prophecy is still in abeyance.

[Mae von H]

God loved the man Esau and gave him and his descendants land, same as Jacob. But centuries later they became evil. That’s when the prophet said God hated that evil people.

God did not give Essau/Edom land because he loved him, he gave him land (Mt Seir) to fulfill Scripture, as indicated in the book of Obadiah.

What scripture? Never heard of this.

The Koran does not say the Arabs originated with Ishmael and indicates that there is a 26 un delineated generation gap between Ishmael and the Arabs. Islam originated in Petra, the city of worldwide traders, and the house of Allah, the Kaaba, where all the gods of the worldwide traders were kept. Mecca was a desolate waste until around the 70th year of the supposed Muslim empire, when the Nabataeans moved out of Petra, as indicated in the later written Islamic narrative/history, which was written much later by mostly Persians in the area of Baghdad.

None of that has any bearing on the discussion.

God gave Esau land because He loved him and protected that land too.

That land will be protected until the "day of the LORD" when it is taken away and given to Israel (Obadiah 1:15-18)

That’s what I said. God loved the man Esau and gave him land and protected him. Thanks! (Are you aware that God said the same to Israel regarding keeping the land?)

Obadiah 1:1 & 15-18 For the day of the Lord is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.

1 The vision of Obadiah. Thus saith the Lord God concerning Edom; We have heard a rumour from the Lord, and an ambassador is sent among the heathen, Arise ye, and let us rise up against her in battle.

16 For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been.

17 But upon mount Zion shall be deliverance, and there shall be holiness; and the house of Jacob shall possess their possessions.

18 And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the Lord hath spoken it.

Uh, the man Esau was long dead when this prophet lived. Long dead.

Obadiah gave prophecy for the time of the "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32) when Essau/Edom, will be destroyed, and lose his property to Jacob/Israel. Obadiah is dead, but the prophecy is still in abeyance.

It is pretty obvious, but a prophet cannot be delivering a prophesy about one man when that man is already dead for centuries. If a prophet would rise up and deliver a prophesy about the destruction of Joe Kennedy, troubles that would be brought on him, we would pull him aside and tell him that Joe Kennedy is long dead and beyond any action on earth.

The prophesy was upon Edom, the offspring of Esau, who had become corrupt and evil. Insisting it is towards a man long dead does not work.

Why is it important to you that God hated the man Esau such that you dig up words that were spoken of the people who descended from him centuries later?