I Don't Think Homosexuality Is A Sin

[InThePottersChamber]

Hi all

Firstly let me clarify, I am not homosexual. I became interested in figuring out if it is a sin or not because I find that gay people are smarter, kinder, and just really good and fun friends generally. I also know that a lot of them want to know God, but are afraid of being shunned by the church so they stay away. They also suffer from hate crimes and bullying, and it is this that make them kill themselves, not because they are 'spiritually dirty/disturbed', like a lot of Christians like to say.

I won't list down all the pro lgbtq theology, I'm sure we all are quite well versed in them, and if you aren't a quick google search can lead you to several articles and books that will inform you well enough. You can start with the infamous Matthew Vines, but there are also other authors whom I think are more convincing than him. I have to admit I've only read two books on this, and I'm sure I will be even more convinced if I took the time to read more, including non theology books about history and culture of the Greeks at the time the bible is set in.

But I will list down some points that I find particularly convincing.

1. What we know about gender through science, anthropology and sociology is that it is a very complicated thing. Our knowledge about the human body is very nascent, science has a long way to go. It is not just about what genitals you are born with, but also what goes on inside the brain. There may be infinitely more proofs that homosexual people are born the way they are, whether in chromosomes, genes, or otherwise.
1a. When Jesus said marriage was between a man and a woman, what if science discovers one day something new about why some women are more 'manly', others are more 'womanly', it is a spectrum, what if Jesus meant something more than what genitals we are born with?

2. The word, concept and understanding of Homosexuality was coined by the Germans, but they didn't use the term in the bible until recently, and it is only because this new version was sponsored by an American company.

3. The word arsenokoitai was a new word coined by A. Paul, and it was sandwiched between two other words which meant male prostitute and male pimp respectively, so most likely it meant men who bought male prostitutes, or men who indulged in homosexual sex outside of a loving and committed relationship. Heterosexuals are also not allowed to indulge in sex outside of a loving and committed relationship.

4. The bible never addressed issues about intersex people, does that mean that these people are sinful too because some of them have two reproductive organs and they can choose, in most cases, which gender they want to live as?

5. I don't believe Ruth and Naomi, or David and Jonathan were homosexuals, like many pro lgbtq proponents claim, but that doesn't mean a lot of their points aren't valid. the conservative church disagrees on many small things, but overall it agrees about the same values. Doesn't mean they are different religions or that they need to separate from one another, or that the whole religion of Christianity is fake.

The bible has been used to justify and even support slavery, racism, racial segregation, and the oppression of women and the poor. Isn't this history repeating itself, but this time to a different type of minority?

Extra points I would like to add are: A lot of people can detect a homosexual among heterosexuals, much like the way we can tell a man from a woman. Isn't this extra proof that they're to an extent born that way? It's like we know Christianity isn't a schizophrenic's fantasy because every Christian believes and experiences roughly the same thing.

Some people say, well, even homosexuals know they are sinful. To this I'd like to share an experience I had with a lesbian friend. She one day told me, "I know I am sinful because when I think of marrying a man I don't feel desperate and heartbroken, but when I think of marrying a woman I feel like I'm in a dark desperate place, I really really want it." For me, at that time, that was to me, solid proof, in fact, THE proof that homosexuality was sinful. For some background info, I've always told this friend every time we met that her sexual orientation was sinful and encouraged her to overcome it through prayer and fasting. But when I prayed for discernment, I immediately realised: Of course she wouldn't feel desperate for a marriage to a man. She wasn't attracted to them. Of course she would feel desperate when she thought about women, she was attracted to them. a LOT of people who are attracted to the opposite sex feel the same way my lesbian friend feels, desperate because they don't think they can attract a spouse, but it doesn't mean God is calling them to turn homosexual.

I prayed for wisdom and discernment for a very long time before I came to the conclusion that homosexuality isn't a sin. For a long time I believed strongly it was a sin, but the evidence against that belief is just too damning.

[collin88x]

[Replying to InThePottersChamber in post #1]

I'm glad you don't think homosexuality is a 'sin'. That's progress for a practicing Christian. However, it also means that you are conveniently ignoring parts of your scripture.

Given that the only 'evidence' we have of what the god in the Bible wants is what is written in the Bible, one cannot simply dismiss/ignore the inconvenient bits. I call this 'cafeteria Christianity' where all the things progressive, modern humans consider immoral (rape/murder/slavery) are quietly swept under the carpet hoping nobody notices the bulge. Sadly, the bulge is obvious to those that have actually read the entire Bible.

As an ex Christian, I can say that one of the things (among many) that led to my ultimate deconversion is the obvious disconnect between a God that supposedly loves all, yet has scripture that contradicts this in so many places.

I say, don't stop here, keep searching your heart and learning what is really in the foundation of your religion. If you can square away what's really in your heart with EVERYTHING that the god in the Bible demands/desires/agrees with, then you can be confident that remaining a Christian is the right choice. If on the other hand you can no longer believe an actual loving god would consent to some of the obvious problems in the Bible, then welcome to the other side.

God doesn't love all. He only loves Israel. God never contradicts. You just were taught the Bible very wrong.

Punishing Crime

“The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father…” — Ezekiel 18:20

VERSES

“I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation…” — Exodus 20:5

____________________________
______________________________________________________________________

Incest

“Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of this mother…” — Deuteronomy 27:22
“And if a man shall take his sister, his father’s daughter, or his mother’s daughter…it is a wicked thing….” — Leviticus 20:17

VERSES

11 Then Abraham said, “I thought no one in this place respected God. I thought someone would kill me to get Sarah. 12 She is my wife, but she is also my sister. She is the daughter of my father but not the daughter of my mother. — Genesis 20:11-12
“And God said unto Abraham, As for Sara thy wife…I bless her, and give thee a son also of her…” — Genesis 17:15-16

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Nice try but no...

Ezekiel 18:20 was a reference to the Christ coming to save the nation of Israel from their sins. Read the whole chapter not just one verse. Because context is key.

The Israelites we're under curses from God for going against their covenant with him. It got so bad God wound up cutting off 9 tribes of Israel from his covenant. Almost the whole nation. Though he remained with the Jews (you read this in hosea 1)

Long story short. Yes Israel were under curses which were from sins of their ancestors. Even to this day Israel is an impoverished nation of people collectively. The real Israelites (not the false Zionist) The real Israelites are still under curses of God until the second coming then they will be redeemed and inherit their land and new Jerusalem and power and glory over all nations in the earth.

Thanks to Christ the sins of the fathers don't apply to Israel of they accept Christ there is no more sin there.

So nice try but you missed the context of the chapter. It was referring to salvation of Israel from their curses from God.

Sins of the fathers however applies to all other nations though. For example edoms sin was taking Israel away captive as their slaves. That will be avenged and the descendants of that nation will in return be Israel's captives in God's kingdom.

Deuteronomy 30:7 (KJV) And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine (Israel's) enemies, and on them that hate thee, (Israel) which persecuted thee.

Isaiah 14:1-2 (KJV) "For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob."

And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors."

Isaiah 14:20-21 (KJV) "Thou (Edom) shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed (descendants) of evildoers shall never be renowned. (Glorified)

Prepare slaughter for his children (bloodline) for the iniquity of their fathers (ancestors); that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities."

That's referring to a gentile nation. The nation of Edom. He's referred to as "Lucifer" in this chapter. (Lucifer is not Satan) long story. But Lucifer is referring to the nation of Edom (Esau) Israel's fraternal (not identical) twin brother who came out red skinned (albino) and very hairy.

Isaiah 14 was about his nations fall from their power in the earth over the nations. And that they will pay for the sins of their fathers. In the end when Israel is back on top.

Israel are not under the sins of the father situation because Israel has Christ to forgive them of their sins to break that curse. The other nations don't. They have no God. And whatever they do remains. And in Esau's case they made slaves of the Israelites and that role will be reversed for that sin.

Leviticus was referring to Israel and the old covenant being established with them and God declaring if you don't these things contrary to what I say? You will suffer curses through your generations, generational cursing. But Christ came so those who repent can break that curse. Israel is still cursed as a whole today but in Christ they have hope for redemption when he returns.

Also the situation with Abraham? That was long before the commandments of God we're established with Moses and Israel. incest became an unlawful practice after the covenant was established after the Exodus from Egypt.

You forgot that part. There was no "law" in the earth at that time. God established that with Israel at mount Sinai. which well over 509 years or so later from the time of Abraham.

So again nice try.

[Miles]

Also the situation with Abraham? That was long before the commandments of God we're established with Moses and Israel. incest became an unlawful practice after the covenant was established after the Exodus from Egypt.

You forgot that part. There was no "law" in the earth at that time. God established that with Israel at mount Sinai. which well over 509 years or so later from the time of Abraham.

So let me get this straight. Before god decreed his ten commandments, he was quite alright with people: having incest, having other god's before him, making graven images, taking his name in vain, forgetting the Sabbath day, not honoring their father and mother, killing, committing adultery, and stealing? Really? And considering that Adam and Eve were created somewhere around 4,000BC, and "The Ten Commandments, also known as The Decalogue, are traditionally estimated to have been given around 1446 B.C"
source
that's a little over 2,500 years where mankind was running rampant, free of god's impending laws. When people were free to have sex with whomever they wanted including other animals. Free to lust after one's neighbor. And indulge oneself in sloth, gluttony, greed, pride, envy, and wrath. And god did nothing to nip such behavior in the bud. Gotta wonder why he waited so long to bring his people under control, and why. My guess, and it's only a guess, is that for whatever reason he rather enjoyed it all, which kind of goes hand-in-hand with his creation of evil:

Isaiah 45:7
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.


.

[collin88x]

Also the situation with Abraham? That was long before the commandments of God we're established with Moses and Israel. incest became an unlawful practice after the covenant was established after the Exodus from Egypt.

You forgot that part. There was no "law" in the earth at that time. God established that with Israel at mount Sinai. which well over 509 years or so later from the time of Abraham.

So let me get this straight. Before god decreed his ten commandments, he was quite alright with people: having incest, having other god's before him, making graven images, taking his name in vain, forgetting the Sabbath day, not honoring their father and mother, killing, committing adultery, and stealing? Really? And considering that Adam and Eve were created somewhere around 4,000BC, and "The Ten Commandments, also known as The Decalogue, are traditionally estimated to have been given around 1446 B.C"
source
that's a little over 2,500 years where mankind was running rampant, free of god's impending laws. When people were free to have sex with whomever they wanted including other animals. Free to lust after one's neighbor. And indulge oneself in sloth, gluttony, greed, pride, envy, and wrath. And god did nothing to nip such behavior in the bud. Gotta wonder why he waited so long to bring his people under control, and why. My guess, and it's only a guess, is that for whatever reason he rather enjoyed it all, which kind of goes hand-in-hand with his creation of evil:

Isaiah 45:7
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.


.

I don't know what you're trying to get at but if you don't like God? Ok, oh well that's you. We won't miss you.

You don't believe in God? Or you don't like God? Which is it?

If you don't believe in God well his validity quite frankly is very easy to prove through the prophecies.

You know there comes a time when even a staunch skeptic has to pause when presented with too many coincidences in the spirit of prophecy for eeons in the past revealing what's going on in our present day.

so if you're open minded to being proven his existence through prophecy. (You're not going to see him face to face until your death so you can forget that) God is all around. He IS. He is the heavens and the earth he is the sun he is the ocean and the trees and nature and procreation of all species. He is the unlimited amount of stars and planets and moons in the heavens.

When I say he is them I mean he created all of it and has organized it to work in the manner which it does.

An atheist theory of why he don't exist? Is very flawed and illogical to believe these things happened from nothing without intelligence behind it. It's not just happenstance.

Human procreation don't just happen from happenstance. Evolution exists as a result of the creation. But evolution itself doesn't even exist without God. without intelligence behind it.

It is very intelligent that the earth orbits around the sun in the manner which it does every day since forever. It's in the perfect position to sustain life on this planet. never once has been moved out of its place. No big bang can create that on its own.

No organisms will create a man then decide it needs a woman to help procreate the species. That's illogical stuff simply does not work that way.

So an atheist theory makes zero sense. A God being the intelligent force behind it makes more sense then that theory.

Now his origins? Matters not to you. You're here, you were put here and you don't have power or intelligence to deal with the knowledge of God's origins. That's not for you to worry about.

He is the God of this universe and he is in control of organizing this universe. And sustaining life of earth, period.

for all we know God can be an angel that was given this portion to govern and be a God over what ever he created.

Who knows. But evidence points more to a Creator then a random happenstance of events. like a big bang? Ok where did the rock come from then? If the logic is where did God come from? Ok where the heck did a gigantic floating rock come from? It just popped?

See my point. Either way it's hard to fathom the origins but reality is it has an origin that cannot be explained.

And God makes way more sense then a proofing floating rock that exploded.

Yeah there was a big bang. God caused it. When he said let there be light the explosion happened to light the heavens with the stars.

Point is it had an origin period that is a FACT! because we exist today and it (the heavens/outer space) exist.

Every night you look up at the stars you're witnessing heaven.

Now I myself prove God's validity and existence through prophecies. I'm big on "after a while a coincidence is probably reality" how many coincidences do one need to be convinced it's real?

To keep denying that and being skeptical in the face of mounting evidence? Says that person simply does not like God whether they saw him or not..

Haters of God exist and I believe an atheist is simply a hater of God. They believe in his existence they just don't like him..

And that's fine..God won't lose sleep and neither will his people (the Israelites/African American slave descent, native American Hispanics)

I can start with that particular race In the spirit of proving his existence.

And as for you saying so he didn't care before the commandments? I'm not gonna say that he didn't care. He just hadn't established it with all people.

God only made a covenant with one race of people not all nations. He only knows and established a covenant with Israel.

He wants Israel to be his government over the earth. Right now Israel is in the midst of curses from God against his commandments and covenant.

He sent Christ finisher in a new covenant with the Israelites because for a few centuries 9 tribes of the nation of Israel didn't even have a God as he removed them from the old covenant (promise/agreement)

God does not desire a covenant with all people. He desires order and a pecking order. He desires his people to inherit power over all nations and to then organize and regulate all nations under his will. According to righteousness

Meaning in THAT day that his kingdom is established on earth? The nations will in that day be under the laws of God

Right now no one outside of Israel is under the laws of God.

Amos 3:1-2 (KJV) Hear this word that the LORD hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, (out of slavery) saying,
You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.

Psalms 147:19-20 (KJV) He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.
He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD.

See the nations don't know God's judgments cuz God hasn't dealt with any other nation outside of Israel. They're not under a covenant.

Israel God made holy which means separate..they're separate because he chose them and made a covenant with them that if they honor his righteous commandments? He will set them up high above all nations in the earth.

Deuteronomy 7:6 (KJV) For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

Deuteronomy 28:1 (KJV) And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command "YOU (Israel) this day", that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:

Above all nations means this thing does not apply to all nations. Only the one who is going to be above all nations. Theyre held to a different standard.

Once the kingdom is established then the nations will be under the laws of God enforced by Christ and the redeemed israelites (blacks/Hispanics) according to the prophecies of Dueteronomy 28:15-68.

This is what the nations will expect to deal with in that day after this world as we know it passes away (and let me tell you, Europe and America won't last forever, no kingdom reigns forever. Theres always an age of decadence and then collapse) what will you do in that day? America falls and Europe falls?


Don't be this guy who thinks it can't fall..and yes this scripture below is referring to the Caucasian race and their power over the European and American kingdoms.

Edom was born red skinned (albino) and very hairy (Genesis 25:25) the non identical twin brother of Jacob (Israel) (he was black) Edoms characteristics of his nation would be he's red skinned, hairy, loves to hunt and is very skilled at hunting, blessed by his father Isaac to reign over the best lands in the earth at some point and to have that power until the end of the world, and he would get that power through the sword (conquering nations) as he was told he would live by his sword.

That isn't no coincidence. That's clearly identifying the Caucasian race and their history and below here God is revealing some of it..

Obadiah 1:1-4 (KJV) "The vision of Obadiah. Thus saith the Lord GOD concerning Edom; We have heard a rumour from the LORD, and an ambassador is sent among the heathen, (gentile nations) Arise ye, and let us rise up against her (edoms power) in battle.

Behold, I have made thee (Edom) small (despised) among the heathen: thou art greatly despised. (This is facts, all nations have fundamental and governmental issues with the Caucasian race and how they conduct business and their questionable past to say the least)

The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, (protected) whose habitation is high; that saith in his heart, Who shall bring me down to the ground?

(Caucasians believe they will have their governmental power over these lands essentially forever. Nobodies of them in power are thinking about an end and when God interviens. Matter fact they're creating space military to fight other worldly things from outer space that's how proud they are)


Though thou exalt thyself as the eagle, and though thou set thy nest among the stars, thence will I bring thee down, saith the LORD.

(Now that was a huge clue. Coupled with all the other stuff I mentioned pertaining to Edom and his characteristics and his future and how he would get the power he would get? Plus this? God says they are very proud and exalt themselves as an Eagle.

Isn't not Americas main symbol the bald eagle? Isn't not Rome and Spains symbol the eagle also? That eagle has been passed down the generations among Caucasian European nations. Unto the American kingdom today. Eagle and a flag is all we see. Yet you question God's existence?

Everything I'm saying is fitting a particular race to a tee. You can't semantic your way around that.

He said they exalt themselves as an eagle, are very proud nation, dwell high meaning protected because of their power and wealth and military they feel nobody can bring them down.

All my life I've heard, I've even done it myself as an American when I was ignorant about God's word. I would say America's the best nobody can beat us, except maybe china but then Europe would aid America. Europe and America are essentially the same. You mess with one, the other will help. Even if some are not in agreement like Russia for example there's still several other Caucasian nations who will go to back for the western world in war.

So it's hard to fathom as it stands now? America falling. That's why the pride in the heart is strong pertaining to thoughts of the kingdom falling. But God says that pride has received them. He's going to be the one who brings them down eventually through world war 3 armageddon and the return of Christ in the midst of the wars.

America and Europe will have to deal with Africa, Asia, (china, north Korea ect,) the middle east, the Hispanic nations and the Jews (African Americans) in that day. This is what he meant by they are small among the heathen. (Not including the Israelites, they're not considered heathen) but they will have a hand in the war also in that day.

But God said Edom also set his nest among the stars. That's history when they landed on the moon and begin to also build a space system to keep an eye on the earth from distance. Which we call NASA. "Set thy nest among the stars" exalt thyself as an eagle. Remember they said "the eagle has landed".

Again.....coincidence? C Mon.... that's just dealing with Caucasians. The rest of the races have prophecies also which price even further God's existence and the power and truth of the word of the God of Israel, the only God that exist in our universe.

Can't speak for the next. All I can speak for is the one I exist under.

And when all that war is said and done? This is what all nations outside of Israel can expect in God's kingdom on earth.

Zechariah 14:16-19 (KJV) And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem (Israel) shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, (Jesus) the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

(Feast of tabernacles is A law of God he had Israel keep, but now in his kingdom all people will keep it. The nations will be FORCED to keep it and if they don't then this will happen (there will be no rebelliousness tolerance in his kingdom. There will be more modern day police system and military and ect. To hide behind. ) It's either conform or suffer certain curses upon your entire land.)

As it is written:

"And it shall be, that whoso will NOT come up of ALL the families (RACES) of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain."

(No RAIN in your land if you refuse to keep this particular law of God in his kingdom. No rain means no food, means famine, starvation, eventually death. So if you want to eat and enjoy the blessings of your land in that day? You better encourage your people to come up and keep this holy day and quit playing around)

As it is written:

"And if the family of Egypt (black Africans) (example) go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles."

This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of "all nations" that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles."

so my point is THATS when all nations will be under the laws of God. Right now they are not only Israel is as they are the only nation locked into a covenant with God for inheritance over the earth.


It's like if you have several kids. You have 12 kids.

Your first born son is the one you give your inheritance too of your wealth. And they will take over and run your business. (governing the earth) But they have to act a certain way to inherit it that time. when they get it? Their family is the one who has the power over everything and distributes what they have to the rest of the family (human race) should they fall in line.

I don't teach the Bible according to modern Christianity doctrines. It's very false information. I teach the correct way and understanding of God and the Bible whether you like it or agree with it is irrelevant

As it is written (again)

Romans 3:3-4 (KJV) For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

[brunumb]

[Replying to collin88x in post #23]

Biblical prophecy has been so thoroughly debunked it is a surprise to find people still using it to prop up their belief in God. Nostradamus, astrologers, newspaper horoscopes and all the rest have the same sort of track record. OK for entertainment, but little else. All that aside, given that sin is just an invented religious concept, there is no need for rational people to consider homosexuality as a sin. It is sad however that deeply religious pastors are calling for homosexuals to be killed. Now that sounds a lot more sinful to me.

[Miles]

Also the situation with Abraham? That was long before the commandments of God we're established with Moses and Israel. incest became an unlawful practice after the covenant was established after the Exodus from Egypt.

You forgot that part. There was no "law" in the earth at that time. God established that with Israel at mount Sinai. which well over 509 years or so later from the time of Abraham.

So let me get this straight. Before god decreed his ten commandments, he was quite alright with people: having incest, having other god's before him, making graven images, taking his name in vain, forgetting the Sabbath day, not honoring their father and mother, killing, committing adultery, and stealing? Really? And considering that Adam and Eve were created somewhere around 4,000BC, and "The Ten Commandments, also known as The Decalogue, are traditionally estimated to have been given around 1446 B.C"
source
that's a little over 2,500 years where mankind was running rampant, free of god's impending laws. When people were free to have sex with whomever they wanted including other animals. Free to lust after one's neighbor. And indulge oneself in sloth, gluttony, greed, pride, envy, and wrath. And god did nothing to nip such behavior in the bud. Gotta wonder why he waited so long to bring his people under control, and why. My guess, and it's only a guess, is that for whatever reason he rather enjoyed it all, which kind of goes hand-in-hand with his creation of evil:

Isaiah 45:7
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.


.

I don't know what you're trying to get at but if you don't like God? Ok, oh well that's you. We won't miss you.

You don't believe in God? Or you don't like God? Which is it?

Some atheists say god does not exist. I don't. I'm an atheist who simply lacks any reason to believe in his existence.

If you don't believe in God well his validity quite frankly is very easy to prove through the prophecies.

To you perhaps, but not to me.

so if you're open minded to being proven his existence through prophecy.

If I had to be that open minded my brains would fall out. No thank you.

An atheist theory of why he don't exist? Is very flawed and illogical to believe these things happened from nothing without intelligence behind it. It's not just happenstance.

What theory is that? I ask because of all the atheists I know none has ever propounded any theory about god. At most they simply say, "I lack any belief that god exists. PERIOD. Please pass the condoms."

Human procreation don't just happen from happenstance. Evolution exists as a result of the creation. But evolution itself doesn't even exist without God. without intelligence behind it. . . . . . . . . . . . . .

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Blah. . . . . . . . . . thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

This is a debate forum, not a forum for preaching. Preaching happens to be against posting rules here.

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[collin88x]

[Replying to collin88x in post #23]

Biblical prophecy has been so thoroughly debunked it is a surprise to find people still using it to prop up their belief in God. Nostradamus, astrologers, newspaper horoscopes and all the rest have the same sort of track record. OK for entertainment, but little else. All that aside, given that sin is just an invented religious concept, there is no need for rational people to consider homosexuality as a sin. It is sad however that deeply religious pastors are calling for homosexuals to be killed. Now that sounds a lot more sinful to me.

Biblical prophecy has not been debunked. You haven't debated me yet.