Causes of Rejecting Scientific Consensus

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

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Jose Fly
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Causes of Rejecting Scientific Consensus

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Post by Jose Fly »

In another thread I expressed that I don't really understand many of the behaviors I frequently see from creationists. One of those behaviors is how they seem to not only think themselves experts in a wide variety of scientific fields, they seem to believe that their knowledge and expertise is superior to the actual professionals in those fields. Thus, we often see them attempt to debate against the work of professionals by mere assertion (IOW, "because I say so").

In that earlier thread, several folks (correctly) noted that such behavior can be explained by the Dunning-Kruger Effect. While I agree that it explains what they're doing, it still doesn't really explain why they do it or how they are seemingly oblivious to it.

The other day I came across this article....

Overconfidence and Opposition to Scientific Consensus
The recent study – Knowledge overconfidence is associated with anti-consensus views on controversial scientific issues, by Nicholas Light et al, is not surprising but is reassuringly solid in its outcome. The researchers compared peoples objective knowledge about various controversial topics (their knowledge of objective facts), with their subjective knowledge (assessment of their own knowledge) and opposition to consensus views. They found a robust effect in which opposition increased as the gap between objective and subjective knowledge increased (see graphs above the fold).

This may remind you of Dunning Kruger – the less people know the more they overestimate their knowledge (although subjective knowledge still decreases, just not as fast as objective knowledge). This is more of a super DK, those who know the least think they know the most. This has been found previously with specific topics – safety of GM food, genetic manipulation, and vaccines and autism. In addition to the super DK effect, this study shows that is correlates well with opposition to scientific consensus.

This study does not fully establish what causes such opposition, just correlates it with a dramatic lack of humility, lack of knowledge, and overestimation of one’s knowledge. There are studies and speculation trying to discern the ultimate causes of this pattern, and they are likely different for different issues. The classic explanation is the knowledge deficit model, that this pattern emerges as a result of lack of objective knowledge. But his model is mostly not true for most topics, although knowledge is still important and can even be dominant with some issues, like GM food. There is also the “cultural cognition” model, which posits that people hold beliefs in line with their culture (including political, social, and religious subcultures). This also is highly relevant for some issues more than others, like rejection of evolutionary science.

Other factors that have been implicated include cognitive style, with intuitive thinkers being more likely to fall into this opposition pattern than analytical thinkers. Intuitive thinking also correlates with another variable, conspiracy thinking, that also correlates with the rejection of consensus. Conspiracy thinking seems to occur in two flavors. There is opportunistic conspiracy thinking in which it seems to be not the driver of the false belief but a reinforcer. But there are also dedicated conspiracy theorists, who will accept any conspiracy, for which conspiracy thinking appears to be the driver.
So to put this in context of my question (why do some exhibit the D-K Effect), the research described in this article indicates that it's due to a combination of factors: lack of humility, one's cultural environment, intuitive-type thinking, conspiracy thinking

The topic for debate: Do you agree with that? Do you see this "super D-K" applying to some of the discussions/debates in this forum? Do you think there are other factors the researchers may have missed?

For me, these explanations line up quite well with the behaviors I commonly notice among creationists, most notably the lack of humility. IMO, that explains why creationists are so prone to argue via empty assertion. They think so highly of themselves, they figure "because I say so" is a valid form of argumentation and don't seem to really understand why the rest of us don't.
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Re: Causes of Rejecting Scientific Consensus

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Post by brunumb »

We_Are_VENOM wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:46 pm Prove the theory true, first...and THEN use an analogy to explain how it works.
The theory is solidly established as true, so the analogy was simply to help clarify allow some people to catch up.

If the analogy does not help to illustrate the essential concept of the theory of evolution as proposed, please point out any significant flaws based on your understanding of the theory.
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Re: Causes of Rejecting Scientific Consensus

Post #92

Post by DrNoGods »

[Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #84]
...when the theory matches up with the observational evidence, then you will have a viable theory...and not a moment sooner.
It does match up with observational evidence, which is exactly why it has become an accepted, formal scientific theory (and has been for a very long time now). It didn't reach that status by accident, or because a few renegade scientists started pushing it 150+ years ago. Opposition was huge from the religious crowd in particular, because it was at odds with certain biblical claims (particularly that humans are special creatures created in the image of a god and therefore could not have evolved from an earlier species). But enough supporting evidence was obtained over a long enough period of time that it emerged as the prevailing theory to explain the diversification and speciation of life on Earth. It works, and is perfectly consistent with "dogs create dogs, cats create cats" per generation.
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Re: Causes of Rejecting Scientific Consensus

Post #93

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

DrNoGods wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:58 pm It does match up with observational evidence, which is exactly why it has become an accepted, formal scientific theory (and has been for a very long time now).
It matches up with observational evidence? Oh, you've observed a reptile-to-bird transformations in nature?

Please, explain the circumstance.

But since we both know you have no circumstance to explain, since you aint observe SQUAT...lets pretend like you never said such a thing.
It didn't reach that status by accident, or because a few renegade scientists started pushing it 150+ years ago. Opposition was huge from the religious crowd in particular, because it was at odds with certain biblical claims (particularly that humans are special creatures created in the image of a god and therefore could not have evolved from an earlier species). But enough supporting evidence was obtained over a long enough period of time that it emerged as the prevailing theory to explain the diversification and speciation of life on Earth. It works, and is perfectly consistent with "dogs create dogs, cats create cats" per generation.
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Re: Causes of Rejecting Scientific Consensus

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Post by We_Are_VENOM »

brunumb wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:40 pm The theory is solidly established as true
I feel the same way about the God hypothesis.
so the analogy was simply to help clarify allow some people to catch up.
If the analogy does not help to illustrate the essential concept of the theory of evolution as proposed, please point out any significant flaws based on your understanding of the theory.
Been there, done that.
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Re: Causes of Rejecting Scientific Consensus

Post #95

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

[Replying to DrNoGods in post #90]

You can have the last word. Canines produce canines.

If you believe that hundreds of millions of years ago, nature was playing games of Transformers, then who am I to hold you back.

I stand firm on the Genesis creation account.
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Re: Causes of Rejecting Scientific Consensus

Post #96

Post by Bust Nak »

We_Are_VENOM wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 3:56 pm Maybe your niece, not mines.
Perhaps a simpler task would be more suitable then? Get a lion, tiger, cheetah, leopard, iguana and jellyfish, then ask her to point to the one that's different from the others. She should hopefully be smart enough to identify the lion, tiger, cheetah, leopard, iguana as belonging to the same kind and point at the jellyfish as the odd one out.

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Re: Causes of Rejecting Scientific Consensus

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Post by The Barbarian »

We_Are_VENOM wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:34 pm Small, micro level changes over time. You, however, believe that those small changes lead to big changes (reptile to bird).
You were going to show us the characteristics of a bird that are not found in other dinosaurs. What have you found?

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Re: Causes of Rejecting Scientific Consensus

Post #98

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

Bust Nak wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 9:17 am
We_Are_VENOM wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 3:56 pm Maybe your niece, not mines.
Perhaps a simpler task would be more suitable then? Get a lion, tiger, cheetah, leopard, iguana and jellyfish, then ask her to point to the one that's different from the others. She should hopefully be smart enough to identify the lion, tiger, cheetah, leopard, iguana as belonging to the same kind and point at the jellyfish as the odd one out.
Again, maybe your niece, not mines.
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Re: Causes of Rejecting Scientific Consensus

Post #99

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

The Barbarian wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 9:41 am
We_Are_VENOM wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:34 pm Small, micro level changes over time. You, however, believe that those small changes lead to big changes (reptile to bird).
You were going to show us the characteristics of a bird that are not found in other dinosaurs. What have you found?
Here is what I found...

Canines produce canines and felines produce felines...and neither owe their existence to a non-canine or non-feline.

That is what I found and all I (or anyone else) have ever observed.

Not going down the "name those characteristics" rabbit hole...it is nothing but an atheistic evolutionary half time show.
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Re: Causes of Rejecting Scientific Consensus

Post #100

Post by Difflugia »

We_Are_VENOM wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 10:22 amNot going down the "name those characteristics" rabbit hole...it is nothing but an atheistic evolutionary half time show.
Since it turns out that taxonomy and evolution are directly related, I can understand why you'd be reluctant to face that particular reality. "If we ignore taxonomic data, evolution's got nothing!"

And the moon might be made of cheese, as long as we ignore geology. lol
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