Free will or Fate?

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sridatta
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Free will or Fate?

Post #1

Post by sridatta »

FATE & FREE WILL

This world is called as karma loka (world of actions), which means that nothing is predetermined and you have free will in complete reality. You can change your destiny by your will and effort as said by Swami Vivekananda. Gita also says that God is not interfering in any activity or fruit of the deeds of any human being and some people think otherwise due to their ignorance (Naadatte ...).

The upper worlds are called as bhoga lokas in which you are enjoying the deeds of your fruits and you will not have any freedom there. When you come back to this earth, you take birth in a specific family with certain set of conditions and your such birth is the end of bhoga loka or the last fruit enjoyed by you in the name ‘Prarabdha’.

Of course, the balance of your deeds in the form of a set of qualities (samskara or vasana) accompany you in the name ‘Sanchita’ from the upper world and influences you in the activities of your life here. Such sanchita is not the will of God, but the balance of your will only after coming from upper world.

All the deeds done by you on this earth influenced by your own set of qualities (Sanchita) form the basis for the future fruits in the upper world in the name ‘Aagami’. Thus, you are determined by your own inner qualities, which are called as destiny. These qualities are in the phase of knowledge only and hence, can be rectified by the right knowledge received from a right preacher. Thus, you can change your destiny with the help of the right knowledge and hence, you have the full freedom here.

Never say that everything happens as per will of God. It is true, but, the direction of everything is as per your will only, which decides the fruit. Freedom is given to soul to decide the direction of any action.
Hence, you are responsible for everything as I am not responsible for any fruit attained by you. You should not throw responsibility on the cycle of deeds (karma) also. Your past balance (Sanchita) is put in the closed cover. The reason for the present birth (Praarabdha) is exhausted after giving this birth.

The fruits of present deeds to be enjoyed by you in the future (Aagaami) are entered in a list, which is also kept in another closed cover. No form of the deed (karma) is interfering with you in your present life.

You are existing in full free state in this world to receive the spiritual knowledge and reform your soul without any disturbance from any external factor. This is the golden opportunity given to you to change your destiny in the state of full freedom. You are responsible for your future uplift or fall.





I am giving the basic energy to You since I the creator of energy. But, You are directing that energy in specific way and hence, You have to enjoy the fruit of the work done by You. I have supplied the electricity to Your house and I am not responsible for Your use to enjoy TV or to touch the electrified wire and commits suicide using the same current!

The fruit of My creation work is entertainment only, which alone reaches Me. I become Your vehicle and hence, I am the doer of Your work. The fruit is related to the direction of work and not to the work.

If You go to the forest, You are robbed by robbers. If You go to a city to Your relatives, You are happy. In both, vehicle and work of going are one and the same, but, fruits are different due to difference in the directions of work.



We are doing good deeds or bad deeds based on our own inherent nature. This is stated repeatedly in the Gītā as “Prakṛtiṁ yānti bhūtāni..., Prakṛtistvāṁ niyokṣyati..., Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni, gunaiḥ karmāṇi..., Kāraṇaṁ guṇasaṅgo’sya...” and so on.

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Re: Free will or Fate?

Post #2

Post by Compassionist »

[Replying to sridatta in post #1]
Not convinced by your claims. As far as I can tell, determinism is true which means we are not worthy of praise or blame. Our choices are the inevitable consequences of our genes, environments, nutrients and experiences interacting.

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Re: Free will or Fate?

Post #3

Post by sridatta »

Compassionist wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 5:55 pm [Replying to sridatta in post #1]
Not convinced by your claims. As far as I can tell, determinism is true which means we are not worthy of praise or blame. Our choices are the inevitable consequences of our genes, environments, nutrients and experiences interacting.
Our past and present deeds are responsible for our own state. If we do good deeds we get good result as happiness. If we do bad deeds we get the fruit as unhappiness or misery. Even misery is for our reformation alone. If we realize, repent and do not repeat any sins from today onwards all our past sins also will be forgiven by God. This is the promise of God to us.

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Re: Free will or Fate?

Post #4

Post by Compassionist »

sridatta wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 9:37 pm
Compassionist wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 5:55 pm [Replying to sridatta in post #1]
Not convinced by your claims. As far as I can tell, determinism is true which means we are not worthy of praise or blame. Our choices are the inevitable consequences of our genes, environments, nutrients and experiences interacting.
Our past and present deeds are responsible for our own state. If we do good deeds we get good result as happiness. If we do bad deeds we get the fruit as unhappiness or misery. Even misery is for our reformation alone. If we realize, repent and do not repeat any sins from today onwards all our past sins also will be forgiven by God. This is the promise of God to us.
How do you know that the things you say are true? I am not convinced that a real and good God exists. Given all the suffering, injustice and deaths in the world, God is either evil and imaginary or evil and real. I can't decide which so I am an agnostic. If God was real and good, the following would never have happened:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinction_events
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_n ... death_toll
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_g ... death_toll
https://thevegancalculator.com/animal-slaughter

Definition of free will: A will that is free from all constraints and is not determined by any variables e.g. genes, environments, nutrients and experiences. Omniscience and omnipotence allow one a will that is free from all constraints and a will that is not determined by any variables. I have never met an entity that was all-knowing and all-powerful. So, the existence of such an entity is hypothetical.

Definition of constrained will: A will that is constrained and is determined by variables e.g. genes, environments, nutrients and experiences. Biological organisms have constrained will.

Things I want to do but can't do due to lack of ability:
1. Go back in time and prevent all suffering and death and injustice.
2. Make all living things equally omnibenevolent, omniscient and omnipotent and be the owner of an infinite number of universes each.
3. End all diseases, injuries, deaths, etc.
4. Prevent all natural disasters.
5. Prevent all accidents.
6. Prevent all violence, killings, rapes, kidnappings, tortures, crimes, persecutions, bullying, bigotry, hypocrisy, selfishness, cruelty, etc.
7. Prevent all malevolence and ignorance.
8. Give everyone the ability to teleport everywhere in an infinite number of universes across an infinite number of timelines.
9. Prevent all poverty.

Things I do (or will do) even though I don't want to do them:
1. Breathe
2. Eat
3. Drink
4. Sleep
5. Dream
7. Pee
8. Poo
9. Fart
10. Burp
11. Sneeze
12. Cough
13. Age
14. Get ill
15. Get injured
16. Sweat
17. Cry
18. Suffer
19. Die

I am clearly not a free agent with a free will. I am truly a prisoner of causality who does things he does not want to do and can't do what he wants to do. The same applies to you and other prisoners of causality. All sentient biological beings are victims from conception to death. We live inevitable lives and make inevitable choices. All our choices are determined by our genes, environments, nutrients and experiences. Only an all-knowing and all-powerful being has free will. All else are victims of having insufficient knowledge and having insufficient power.

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Re: Free will or Fate?

Post #5

Post by sridatta »

Compassionist wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 6:06 pm
sridatta wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 9:37 pm
Compassionist wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 5:55 pm [Replying to sridatta in post #1]
Not convinced by your claims. As far as I can tell, determinism is true which means we are not worthy of praise or blame. Our choices are the inevitable consequences of our genes, environments, nutrients and experiences interacting.
Our past and present deeds are responsible for our own state. If we do good deeds we get good result as happiness. If we do bad deeds we get the fruit as unhappiness or misery. Even misery is for our reformation alone. If we realize, repent and do not repeat any sins from today onwards all our past sins also will be forgiven by God. This is the promise of God to us.
How do you know that the things you say are true? I am not convinced that a real and good God exists. Given all the suffering, injustice and deaths in the world, God is either evil and imaginary or evil and real. I can't decide which so I am an agnostic. If God was real and good, the following would never have happened:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinction_events
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_n ... death_toll
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_g ... death_toll
https://thevegancalculator.com/animal-slaughter

Definition of free will: A will that is free from all constraints and is not determined by any variables e.g. genes, environments, nutrients and experiences. Omniscience and omnipotence allow one a will that is free from all constraints and a will that is not determined by any variables. I have never met an entity that was all-knowing and all-powerful. So, the existence of such an entity is hypothetical.

Definition of constrained will: A will that is constrained and is determined by variables e.g. genes, environments, nutrients and experiences. Biological organisms have constrained will.

Things I want to do but can't do due to lack of ability:
1. Go back in time and prevent all suffering and death and injustice.
2. Make all living things equally omnibenevolent, omniscient and omnipotent and be the owner of an infinite number of universes each.
3. End all diseases, injuries, deaths, etc.
4. Prevent all natural disasters.
5. Prevent all accidents.
6. Prevent all violence, killings, rapes, kidnappings, tortures, crimes, persecutions, bullying, bigotry, hypocrisy, selfishness, cruelty, etc.
7. Prevent all malevolence and ignorance.
8. Give everyone the ability to teleport everywhere in an infinite number of universes across an infinite number of timelines.
9. Prevent all poverty.

Things I do (or will do) even though I don't want to do them:
1. Breathe
2. Eat
3. Drink
4. Sleep
5. Dream
7. Pee
8. Poo
9. Fart
10. Burp
11. Sneeze
12. Cough
13. Age
14. Get ill
15. Get injured
16. Sweat
17. Cry
18. Suffer
19. Die

I am clearly not a free agent with a free will. I am truly a prisoner of causality who does things he does not want to do and can't do what he wants to do. The same applies to you and other prisoners of causality. All sentient biological beings are victims from conception to death. We live inevitable lives and make inevitable choices. All our choices are determined by our genes, environments, nutrients and experiences. Only an all-knowing and all-powerful being has free will. All else are victims of having insufficient knowledge and having insufficient power.
God knows every bit of creation since He is omniscient. He can also control every bit of creation since He is omnipotent. He is indeed ruling over creation and He is certainly punishing all sinners in proper time. We think that God delays the judgment of sinners. The delay is not because God has to go through some long procedure to find out the truth in each case, like human courts. Since He is omniscient, as soon as the criminal commits the crime, God is ready with the correct judgment, in a fraction of a second. He does not need any witness, evidence, advocates or arguments.

After death, when a soul faces an inquiry for ten days, all the sins committed by the soul are already available and are played like a running film. That system which secretly records all the crimes as they were taking place is called Citragupta. The secret witness is protected in the form of that film-show (Citreṇa gopayati sākṣyam iti Citraguptaḥ). Hence, during that ten-day inquiry in the Preta Loka, which is the world of the dead, no other witness, no arguments and no lawyers are needed. The inquiry proceeds merely by running the recorded film show of the soul’s sins before the eyes of the soul, who is present in a subtle body.

Therefore, the delay in God’s judgment of sinners is not a procedural delay. The whole delay in the court of God is only an intentionally-given time for the reformation of the soul. God gives a sufficiently long span of time to the soul to get reformed through the three steps of realisation, repentance and finally, the non-repetition of the sin. When the wicked Kauravas, tried to disrobe Draupadi in the royal court, God Krishna protected her immediately by giving an unlimited supply of cloth to keep her covered. But He did not punish Kauravas immediately. God gave 13-years-time to the Kauravas during which He was observing whether they could realise the sin that they had committed and rectify it. Had they realised and got reformed, they would have given the rightful share of half the kingdom to the Pāṇḍavas. They could have at least granted them five villages, which was the bare-minimum demand of the Paṇḍavas. That way, they could have saved themselves.

The loss of a good victim is always compensated by God immediately. The victim need not get ferocious for revenge since he has already been compensated. He need not worry about the delay in the punishment of the sinner. If the victim does not get compensated by God, it means that the victim had harmed the criminal in the previous birth. So, the present sinner has only harmed the present victim in retaliation for a previous sin, as per the judgment of God. No compensation is due to the present victim, in such a case. Hence, My friend, why should you worry that there is injustice taking place in this world? You are getting emotional only due to your lack of knowledge of the overall background.

A criminal killed several innocent and good people previously, which you have not seen with your eyes. You are just seeing the criminal being hanged by the jailer and you are sympathizing with the criminal and abusing the jailer! The jailer is only killing him following the judgment given by the judge. Similarly, somebody is harming another, only based on the judgment of God. If you argue that you have not done any crime towards your criminal enemy, it is not correct because you only have the knowledge of the present birth. If you had really not harmed your enemy in the previous births, you would certainly have been compensated by God immediately. Your enemy would also certainly receive punishment from God, in due course of time, if your enemy fails to get reformed during the time-period granted by God.

You should not worry about this delay in the punishment of your enemy because, even if the enemy were punished immediately, your loss would not get compensated in any way. Seeing your enemy getting punished only pacifies your vengeance; it does not bring any real compensation to you. What is the use of such mere pacification of your feelings, if your loss is not properly compensated? Hence, the delay in punishment should not be misunderstood as the victory of injustice. The judges gave the punishment to the criminals of the Nirbhaya gang-rape case after seven years. Do you criticize this as the victory of injustice? The delay in punishment is common in both the court of God and the court of human judges. But the reasons for the delay are different. In the human court, it is due to the long procedure needed to find the truth, whereas, the delay in the court of God is due to God’s patience in giving sufficient time to the criminal for reformation. Once your loss is well-compensated, you have no right to criticize God for His delay in punishing the sinner.

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Re: Free will or Fate?

Post #6

Post by Compassionist »

[Replying to sridatta in post #5]

How do you know that the things you say are true?

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Re: Free will or Fate?

Post #7

Post by sridatta »

Compassionist wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:12 am [Replying to sridatta in post #5]

How do you know that the things you say are true?
Your innerconciousness shall be convinced by it by sharp logical analysis. Then only you accept any point of any other person.

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Re: Free will or Fate?

Post #8

Post by Compassionist »

sridatta wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 10:49 am
Compassionist wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:12 am [Replying to sridatta in post #5]

How do you know that the things you say are true?
Your innerconciousness shall be convinced by it by sharp logical analysis. Then only you accept any point of any other person.
For me, the arbiter of truth is evidence. What evidence do you have to prove your claims about the existence and the nature of souls and the existence and the nature of God? I am not convinced by your assertions alone.

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Re: Free will or Fate?

Post #9

Post by sridatta »

Compassionist wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:19 pm
sridatta wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 10:49 am
Compassionist wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:12 am [Replying to sridatta in post #5]

How do you know that the things you say are true?
Your innerconciousness shall be convinced by it by sharp logical analysis. Then only you accept any point of any other person.
For me, the arbiter of truth is evidence. What evidence do you have to prove your claims about the existence and the nature of souls and the existence and the nature of God? I am not convinced by your assertions alone.
When we eat food it get digested and oxidised to produce energy. When this energy flows over the nervous system, soul or awareness is produced. Awareness or soul means a bundle of thoughts. When you go to deep sleep the awareness goes back to its original form the energy, hence in deep sleep you are not aware of any items outside you.

God is unimaginable and beyond space. Existence of unimaginable events called miracles is the proof of existence of God. God also comes to this world in human form like Rama, Krishna, Jesus etc to preach the divine knowledge to uplift us time to time.

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Re: Free will or Fate?

Post #10

Post by Compassionist »

[Replying to sridatta in post #9]

Please see https://www.dictionary.com/browse/soul I am not convinced that living things have souls. As far as I can tell, the mind is what the brain does.

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