How Do You Conclude...?

[POI]

Christians might often make statements such as (paraphrased):

"God answered my prayer(s)"
"God helped me with this/that"
"God guided me in the right direction"
etc etc etc etc etc etc..................

For Debate:

How do Christians conclude God answers any prayers, or helps anyone with anything? What mechanism(s) is/are used to discern God's hand at all, verses not?

[Diagoras]

If I pray for an elephant to pop into my room, and immediately, and elephant pops into my room...I'm gonna go ahead and conclude that my prayers were answered.

Praise be to Ganesha indeed!

[We_Are_VENOM]

If I pray for an elephant to pop into my room, and immediately, and elephant pops into my room...I'm gonna go ahead and conclude that my prayers were answered.

Praise be to Ganesha indeed!

It has to happen first..

[POI]

[Replying to POI in post #64]

It is only about if they are reasonable to conclude that God healed them. It is not about if they can know for certain that God healed them. We already agreed we cannot prove things.

Post #64 demonstrates one's lack in reasoning. To quickly conclude such a god, is quite hasty, and also requires credulity/faith/hope.

Until you go over post #64, and demonstrate why your conclusion is superior, or even any more plausible to the other option(s), you have demonstrated nothing.

[POI]

For Debate:

How do Christians conclude God answers any prayers, or helps anyone with anything? What mechanism(s) is/are used to discern God's hand at all, verses not?

If I pray for an elephant to pop into my room, and immediately, and elephant pops into my room...I'm gonna go ahead and conclude that my prayers were answered.

Do you really think that will ever happen?

I'll be awaiting a real answer....

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to POI in post #73]

I would not need to demonstrate or prove God's existence in order to rationally conclude that God answered my prayer.

If I am convinced that God exist, say because I find it to be the best metaphysical explanation for why anything exist, then I am holding to a rational view. You will not be able to demonstrate that the belief in God is not rational if they base it on metaphysical arguments. You sure aren't going to offer an alternative metaphysic that makes say Scholastic Metaphysics an unreasonable position.

So once one has a rational reason to accept God, then they can also be rational to conclude that the God they believe in answered their prayer.

I mean, sure, you can be overtly skeptical if you wish, but why should they? They hold a rational view of God existing, and he clearly has the power to answer prayers.

Hey, you could even be overtly skeptical that I human wrote this. You could argue that you cannot be sure I am a human. Maybe I am AI, or maybe I am an alien. You have no way to know for sure either way, so you might as well not believe you are talking to a human. But I doubt you are going to be overtly skeptical of this.

The theists is not going to be overtly skeptical if God seems to answer their prayer.

So all it comes down to is if the reasoning for their prayer being answered makes sense. If it is something common that happens all the time and they ask God for it and it happens, I do not think they are being reasonable to conclude God answered.

For example, if they pray for it to rain and it does. Or if they pray for their plant to grow and it does. Or they pray to get a job and they do. Or they pray to pass a test and they do, etc.

But if they are extremely ill for years and they give a final prayer in desperation, something like, okay, I cannot take this anymore. I am going to kill myself and you know my heart if I will or not. I cannot take it. Either let me die or I am killing myself, or make me healthy again.

If they suddenly get healthy even though they took no medicine and underwent no procedures, they would be reasonable to conclude God healed them because they already have a rational belief in God.

Are you claiming that you have evidence like some superior metaphysic that renders belief in scholastic metaphysics such that it is not reasonable to accept?

Now, if you grant that one can reasonably believe in God. Are you then claiming they cannot be rational to believe God answers some prayers?

[POI]

I would not need to demonstrate or prove God's existence in order to rationally conclude that God answered my prayer.

If I am convinced that God exist, say because I find it to be the best metaphysical explanation for why anything exist, then I am holding to a rational view. You will not be able to demonstrate that the belief in God is not rational if they base it on metaphysical arguments. You sure aren't going to offer an alternative metaphysic that makes say Scholastic Metaphysics an unreasonable position.

You have, again, completely dodged the straight forward response in post #64. And now, you are continually making me back-track. We 'agree' that 'science' cannot disprove god(s). We also 'agree' philosophy hasn't demonstrated a god either. You then jump to some form of "solipsism"., etc etc etc... I'll make it very easy for you, and regurgitate what you have avoided:

-- A magic alien could just as easily be addressing your prayer requests, and the opposing god believer's requests are being addressed.
-- Prayers, from two opposing religions, are both most probably not being addressed by either god.
-- How do you conclude god answers anything? ---> Once vetted out, your given responses boil down to faith/hope; and nothing more.
-- We can also add cardiac patients to the list of, "I ain't gonna address your request".

There, I just did your work for you... in post #64. None of my above needs or requires any 'special considerations'. Just plain good 'ol fashioned basic reasoning.

[We_Are_VENOM]

But your example validates the atheist case - elephants do not appear in rooms when they are prayed for and believers know they don't and so don't pray for them.

Yeah, we don't pray for stuff like that, because we do not use God for "show and tell" class demonstrations.

We pray for stuff that actually matters.

Thousands of people can testify that they've prayed to God and have had their prayers answered, and I can also attest to praying for things and have gotten my requests granted in REAL TIME.

Of course, I do not expect you to buy these sort of things.

That is why, you continue to do what unbelievers do...and we will continue to do what believers do...and we will see who prevails in the end.

Instead they pray for the sort of things that do happen and if they do, it validates their Faith, if not, God decided they should not have it and still it leaves them without any doubts. It is the perfect system for maintaining self - delusion.

God does answer "no" to prayers sometimes.

[We_Are_VENOM]

Do you really think that will ever happen?

I'll be awaiting a real answer....

I don't know? Why should he? What motivation will I have to ask such a thing? To prove it to you?

God created an entire world from nothing, along with mankind.

According to the Bible, that should be enough.

And if it isn't, that is more of a strike against the suppressed belief of unbelievers, not God.

[POI]

Yeah, we don't pray for stuff like that, because we do not use God for "show and tell" class demonstrations.

If you could, you would.

We pray for stuff that actually matters.

As long as it does not include stuff that only your god could resolve/answer.

Thousands of people can testify that they've prayed to God and have had their prayers answered, and I can also attest to praying for things and have gotten my requests granted in REAL TIME.

Kool. In these thousands of apparent answered requests, including yours, has any of them included reversing cerebral palsy, in "REAL TIME"? My uncle has it. I prayed more times than I can count. And nothing. Maybe you can pray for his cerebral palsy to be cured in real time? I won't hold my breath however.

Of course, I do not expect you to buy these sort of things.

Right, because we atheists are not "open-minded" enough

God does answer "no" to prayers sometimes.

Right, apparently, if you have cerebral palsy. But it is, instead, all the time and not sometimes.

[POI]

I don't know? Why should he? What motivation will I have to ask such a thing? To prove it to you?

Is this some kind of 'dare me' set of questions. We both know it's not going to happen regardless. So you can stop with the games.

God created an entire world from nothing, along with mankind.

Oh, he did? Do tell? From 'nothing'?

According to the Bible, that should be enough.

Well, if my rubric for God was based merely upon the claims of the Bible alone, I would have to stop, not very far into Genesis.

And if it isn't, that is more of a strike against the suppressed belief of unbelievers, not God.

Kool, so calling me a liar it is, I guess