Hell - A misunderstood word

[MissKate13]

The English word hell appears twenty-three times in the King James Version of the New Testament. “Hell” actually represents three different terms in the Greek New Testament.

The first is “ade.” It is translated hell ten times in the KJV. Many new versions use the word Hades instead of hell. There are several ways Hades is used in the NT. The best way to determine its use is by context. In some places Hades is defined as the abode of departed spirits.

Gehenna (geennan), on the other hand, seems to be a place of torment, one to be avoided. Gehenna originates from two Hebrew words meaning “Valley of Hinnom.” The Valley of Hinnom, in the mind of the Jews, was detestable, disgusting, sickening, entirely unpleasant, and a place to be avoided. That was exactly what Jesus wanted to get across each time he used the term geennan.

Tartarus occurs only one in the New Testament (2 Peter 2:4). Here, it is used of the abode of evil angels prior to their banishment to Gehenna, their ultimate destiny (Mt. 25:41). It denotes that area of Hades in which both rebel men and angels are punished prior to the day of judgment. 2 Peter 2:9 supports this: “the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment unto the day of judgment”

“Hell” is not the grave. In the New Testament there are three words that refer to the grave. They are taphos, mnema, and mnemeion. Taphos is used seven times and is translated sepulcher six times and tomb once.
Mnema is translated as tomb twice, grave once, and sepulcher four times.
Mnemeion is used five times as tomb, twenty-nine times as sepulcher, and eight times as grave.

Mt 5:22 geennan
Mt 5:29 geennan
Mt 5:30 geennan
Mt 10:28 geenne
Mt 11:23 adou
Mt 16:18 adou
Mt 18:9 geennan
Mt 23:15 geennes
My 23:33 geennes
Mark 9:43 geennan
Mark 9:47 geennan
Mark 9:47 geennan
Luke 10:15 adou
Luke 12:5 geennan
Luke 16:23 ade
Acts 2:27 aden
Acts 2:31 aden
James 3:6 geennes
2 Peter 2:4 tartarōsas
Rev 1:18 adou
Rev 6:8 ades
Rev 20:13 ades
Rev 20:14 ades

Your thoughts?

[Purple Knight]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #62]

Let me ask you this then.

Is it possibly a provably false teaching that an unfair God exists?

No. I don't think you can rule out an unfair god's existence.

I just think you can rule it out in practice because an unfair god will just punish you anyway, even if you do exactly what he says. Or he'll set up unwinnable scenarios, or he'll make righteousness a Rumpelstiltskinian gameshow of guess-my-name and sorry-you-thought-it-was-Yahweh-to-Hell-you-go. So if god is unfair it's pointless to heed him. It's possible he's saying "go do X" so he can punish you for it.

In other words, sure, there might be an unfair god, but the right course of action then is to ignore him and pretend he doesn't exist, even if he does.

Is it possibly a provably false teaching that hellish alternate experiences can and do happen where such a God places personalities into such circumstances?

No. This right now well could be Hell.

[William]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #71]

I don't think you can rule out an unfair god's existence.

Would it be fair to say that this is because you think;

This right now well could be Hell.

?

If there were more experience to come after you die - if you died right after reading this, what do you think would be a fair experience for you to then have?

[Purple Knight]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #71]

I don't think you can rule out an unfair god's existence.

Would it be fair to say that this is because you think;

This right now well could be Hell.

?

If there were more experience to come after you die - if you died right after reading this, what do you think would be a fair experience for you to then have?

Punishment. But just because I happen to be punished and happen to be deserving of it, doesn't mean god is fair. It just means that in one case he has done what is fair. I don't know what he did in other cases.

[William]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #71]

I don't think you can rule out an unfair god's existence.

Would it be fair to say that this is because you think;

This right now well could be Hell.

?

If there were more experience to come after you die - if you died right after reading this, what do you think would be a fair experience for you to then have?

Punishment. But just because I happen to be punished and happen to be deserving of it, doesn't mean god is fair. It just means that in one case he has done what is fair. I don't know what he did in other cases.

So do you think it would be fair that the information of what happens to others is kept from you?

[Purple Knight]

So do you think it would be fair that the information of what happens to others is kept from you?

No. Because if someone chops off my arm in sadistic glee and I see him rewarded for it, but I don't see him ultimately punished later, I will rightly conclude based on the information I have that I probably live in an unfair universe.

In an unfair universe my obligations end at not violating anybody's rights and treating others how I want to be treated. And if I suddenly want to take everything others have and waste it, then I want to be told no. This is me making fairness, all I can make. If you want me to bend over backwards, give away all I have, applaud that fellow as he rapes and kills my wife, smile, and say, "Oh he knows not what he does poor thing, I love him so," then show me the universe is fair, and how me doing that is fair, and then I probably will.

[William]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #75]

So do you think it would be fair that the information of what happens to others is kept from you?

No.

Do you think then, that even as you deserve punishment, withholding from you the information you think is important to you - shouldn't be part of your punishment?

That you would like to know that, that fellow who rapes and kills your wife is punished accordingly rather than the information being withheld from you?

[Purple Knight]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #75]

So do you think it would be fair that the information of what happens to others is kept from you?

No.

Do you think then, that even as you deserve punishment, withholding from you the information you think is important to you - shouldn't be part of your punishment?

That you would like to know that, that fellow who rapes and kills your wife is punished accordingly rather than the information being withheld from you?

Yes I think it would be fair to tell me, even if only so I don't think it's justified for me to punish him.

If I think I live in an unfair universe and I want a fair one, then I've got to make that fairness, don't I? And there's nothing wrong with me doing that, is there? I mean, if the universe is fundamentally unfair, might makes right and what happens, happens. And that includes me carving out fairness and fighting for it because I want it.

But if somebody already gave him his licks then not only don't I have to, but I shouldn't. So I absolutely need that information.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to William in post #48]

The thread is not debating what I believe. Have you given up on the debate topic?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to MissKate13 in post #1]

Indeed.

Misunderstandings galore.


Hades is the NT equivalent to the OT "Sheol". Neither of these is "the abode of departed spirits".

God tells the truth about where the spirit goes at death when it has departed:

"the dust returns to the ground from which it came, and the spirit returns to God who gave it". Ecclesiastes 12:7.

As to Gehenna, Jesus never stated or implied it was eternal torment.

I agree.

"the dust returns to the ground from which it came, and the spirit returns to God who gave it". Ecclesiastes 12:7.

JW

[William]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #77]

Yes I think it would be fair to tell me, even if only so I don't think it's justified for me to punish him.

You were not the one raped. Your wife was. Why do you think it is justified that you should be the one to punish him?

If I think I live in an unfair universe and I want a fair one, then I've got to make that fairness, don't I?

Or the universe is not fair or unfair but just is what it is and you choose to behave fairly or not, within it.

I mean, if the universe is fundamentally unfair, might makes right and what happens, happens.

This universe = spacetime and spacetime is not fundamental according to QM. There is nothing fundamental about this universe - in and of itself.

In order for the universe to be fair or unfair, it would have to be sentient. Are you saying the universe is able to act fairly/unfairly?

But if somebody already gave him his licks then not only don't I have to, but I shouldn't.

Q: What make you believe that you have the right and should be the one to punish him, in the first place?

So I absolutely need that information.

You would have to answer the Q: before we could proceed with agreeing that you absolutely need the information that he was punished.