.
I just heard this statement by a person who is much in the news these days.
Is this a valid statement?
Does anyone have the right to express such confidence?
What would qualify one to feel this confidence?
I'll refrain for now from reveling the identity of the person who made this claim. If a robust discussion develops, I'll reveal their identity and then we can discuss if that changes any opinions.
Tcg
"I do not fear death because I am in Christ."
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Tcg
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"I do not fear death because I am in Christ."
Post #1To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
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William
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Re: "I do not fear death because I am in Christ."
Post #2[Replying to Tcg in post #1]
There can be many reasons why individual personalities may not fear death, and the reason given in the OP, is one such reason.
Are you asking if this reason is a legitimate one to have?
There can be many reasons why individual personalities may not fear death, and the reason given in the OP, is one such reason.
Are you asking if this reason is a legitimate one to have?
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Miles
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Re: "I do not fear death because I am in Christ."
Post #3Sure they do. But usually they're locked up and we never have to hear from them.
A super ego. (Note, not "superego.")What would qualify one to feel this confidence?
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bjs1
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Re: "I do not fear death because I am in Christ."
Post #4Of course. The person is expressing what they feel.
Obviously yes. This person is expressing their confidence about their condition. They are not expressing anything positive or negative about any other person. I cannot think of a situation where a person would not have the right express such feelings.
Is there something about the expression of this confidence that harms you or makes you think they shouldn’t have this right?
I was unaware feelings need to be qualified. What makes you suggest that feelings need to be qualified?
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
-Charles Darwin
-Charles Darwin
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theophile
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Re: "I do not fear death because I am in Christ."
Post #5All things are possible given infinite time, including resurrection of the dead.Tcg wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:48 pm .
I just heard this statement by a person who is much in the news these days.
Is this a valid statement?
Does anyone have the right to express such confidence?
What would qualify one to feel this confidence?
I'll refrain for now from reveling the identity of the person who made this claim. If a robust discussion develops, I'll reveal their identity and then we can discuss if that changes any opinions.
Tcg
So to me this is more a question of what wins out, hope or fear. And there is nothing unreasonable putting your money on hope.
That said, 'confidence' may be too strong a word... We don't live so close to Jesus and his reported resurrection to go quite so far as this, I don't think.
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tigger 2
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Re: "I do not fear death because I am in Christ."
Post #7[Replying to William in post #2]
Expressions in the Bible like ‘in Christ’ - “denote membership in Christ and his church ... 1 Thess. 4:16; Ro. 8:1; 16:11” - Kittel, p. 233, and #45 in ‘Hints and Helps’, Young’s Analytical Concordance. And sure enough, when we look up these scriptures, we see that they use en, ἐν, which is usually translated “in.” But notice how these trinitarian Bibles render these verses:
1 Th. 4:16 - “the dead in [en] Christ shall rise first.” - NASB.
“the dead in union with [en] Christ will rise” - CBW.
“those who have died believing in [en] Christ will rise” - TEV (Cf 4:14).
“those who belong to [en] Christ will come out of their graves” - NLV.
“the believers who are dead will be the first to rise” - Living Bible.
“first those who died in union with [en] Christ will rise” - AT
Ro. 8:1 - “There is...no condemnation for those who are in [en] Christ Jesus” - NASB.
“there is no ... for those who are in union with [en] Christ Jesus” - CBW.
“There is no ... for those who live in union with [en] Christ Jesus” - TEV.
“those who belong to [en] Christ will not suffer....” - NLV.
“those who belong to [en] Christ Jesus” - Living Bible.
“those who are united with [en] Christ Jesus” - REB.
“those who are in union with [en] Christ Jesus” - AT (Smith-Goodspeed)
Ro. 16:11 - “those of the household of Narcissus, who are in [en] the Lord” - NASB.
“...in the family of Narcissus that belong to [en] the Lord” - ETRV.
“the household of Narcissus who are in the Lord’s fellowship” - NEB.
“the household of Narcissus who are in the Lord’s fellowship” - REB.
“the household of Narcissus who belong to [en] the Lord” - JB.
“those who belong to [en] the Lord in the household of Narcissus” - NJB.
And so it is that Jesus, in prayer to God, says: “As you, Father, are in [ἐν] me and I am in [ἐν] you, may they [Jesus’ followers] also be in [ἐν] us” - John 17:21, NRSV.
The fact that Jesus’ followers, too, are to be ἐν Jesus and ἐν the Father makes it reasonable that a simple unity of purpose or agreement is being described here.
That is why even some trinitarian Bibles render John 17:21 as
“just as you, Father, are in union with me and I in union with you, for them to be in union with [en] us” - CBW.
“... let them be in union with [en] us” - AT (Smith and Goodspeed).
“May they belong to us” - NLV.
And respected trinitarian commentaries even explain that John 17:21 is telling us that "the only possible way to have unity among believers is for all of them to find unity first with God in Christ." - p. 280, Vol. V, Word Pictures in the New Testament, A.T. Robertson.
Ralph P. Martin tells us that the phrase ‘in [ἐν] Christ Jesus’ is regularly used by Paul to mean “ ‘in union with Christ’, which is often tantamount to ‘in the fellowship of his people’.” - p. 99, Philippians.
Expressions in the Bible like ‘in Christ’ - “denote membership in Christ and his church ... 1 Thess. 4:16; Ro. 8:1; 16:11” - Kittel, p. 233, and #45 in ‘Hints and Helps’, Young’s Analytical Concordance. And sure enough, when we look up these scriptures, we see that they use en, ἐν, which is usually translated “in.” But notice how these trinitarian Bibles render these verses:
1 Th. 4:16 - “the dead in [en] Christ shall rise first.” - NASB.
“the dead in union with [en] Christ will rise” - CBW.
“those who have died believing in [en] Christ will rise” - TEV (Cf 4:14).
“those who belong to [en] Christ will come out of their graves” - NLV.
“the believers who are dead will be the first to rise” - Living Bible.
“first those who died in union with [en] Christ will rise” - AT
Ro. 8:1 - “There is...no condemnation for those who are in [en] Christ Jesus” - NASB.
“there is no ... for those who are in union with [en] Christ Jesus” - CBW.
“There is no ... for those who live in union with [en] Christ Jesus” - TEV.
“those who belong to [en] Christ will not suffer....” - NLV.
“those who belong to [en] Christ Jesus” - Living Bible.
“those who are united with [en] Christ Jesus” - REB.
“those who are in union with [en] Christ Jesus” - AT (Smith-Goodspeed)
Ro. 16:11 - “those of the household of Narcissus, who are in [en] the Lord” - NASB.
“...in the family of Narcissus that belong to [en] the Lord” - ETRV.
“the household of Narcissus who are in the Lord’s fellowship” - NEB.
“the household of Narcissus who are in the Lord’s fellowship” - REB.
“the household of Narcissus who belong to [en] the Lord” - JB.
“those who belong to [en] the Lord in the household of Narcissus” - NJB.
And so it is that Jesus, in prayer to God, says: “As you, Father, are in [ἐν] me and I am in [ἐν] you, may they [Jesus’ followers] also be in [ἐν] us” - John 17:21, NRSV.
The fact that Jesus’ followers, too, are to be ἐν Jesus and ἐν the Father makes it reasonable that a simple unity of purpose or agreement is being described here.
That is why even some trinitarian Bibles render John 17:21 as
“just as you, Father, are in union with me and I in union with you, for them to be in union with [en] us” - CBW.
“... let them be in union with [en] us” - AT (Smith and Goodspeed).
“May they belong to us” - NLV.
And respected trinitarian commentaries even explain that John 17:21 is telling us that "the only possible way to have unity among believers is for all of them to find unity first with God in Christ." - p. 280, Vol. V, Word Pictures in the New Testament, A.T. Robertson.
Ralph P. Martin tells us that the phrase ‘in [ἐν] Christ Jesus’ is regularly used by Paul to mean “ ‘in union with Christ’, which is often tantamount to ‘in the fellowship of his people’.” - p. 99, Philippians.
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William
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Re: "I do not fear death because I am in Christ."
Post #8[Replying to tigger 2 in post #7]
There can be many reasons why individual personalities may not fear death, and the reason given in the OP, is one such reason.Re: "I do not fear death because I am in Christ."
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We_Are_VENOM
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Re: "I do not fear death because I am in Christ."
Post #9Yeah.
Yeah, in the same way you have the right to NOT express such confidence.Does anyone have the right to express such confidence?
Faith in Christ.What would qualify one to feel this confidence?
The identity is irrelevant...and just as irrelevant as it is for unbelievers to care about a believer who is professing faith in his/her belief.I'll refrain for now from reveling the identity of the person who made this claim. If a robust discussion develops, I'll reveal their identity and then we can discuss if that changes any opinions.
Tcg
Venni Vetti Vecci!!
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Tcg
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Re: "I do not fear death because I am in Christ."
Post #10I'll add more later but suffice it to say for now that this quote comes from the Christian Darrell Brooks.Tcg wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:48 pm .
I just heard this statement by a person who is much in the news these days.
Is this a valid statement?
Does anyone have the right to express such confidence?
What would qualify one to feel this confidence?
I'll refrain for now from reveling the identity of the person who made this claim. If a robust discussion develops, I'll reveal their identity and then we can discuss if that changes any opinions.
Tcg
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
