The problem of sin

[Shem Yoshi]

Romans 3:11 states "there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God."

isnt understanding fundamental to actions? If someone knows right and wrong, what to do, when to do it, how, perfection, they ought not sin. Even in temptations, if someone knows, heaven, hell, see's through deception, understands why they should not sin, then they wouldnt sin. Even Eve was said to be deceived. Even a person in rebellion from God must not understand God, not know the truth, or they wouldnt rebel. If someone understand that hell awaits, and what it is, wouldnt they not go? Like the rich man and Lazarus parable (Luke 16:19-31), where the rich man doesn't know the severity of hell until its too late and he begs God for deliverance. Therefor not understanding God ought to be the root of why anyone sins. And even the most religious person, compared to someone who is not, both dont understand.

If Jesus is true, and by faith in Him we are saved, then understanding that is fundamental to belief. How can someone be held responsible if they dont understand it, which may cause rebellion?

Even believing in Jesus, and not "knowing" Him is grounds for punishment, like when Jesus said "depart from me i never knew you" to believers who were "workers of iniquity".

So believing in Jesus or not, you might not be saved, and that is based on your understanding, of how to act, what to believe, etc. But no one understands. believer or not.

Topic for debate.
How can anyone be judged by God, if all are sinful by nature (i.e. by their limited human capabilities)?

[OneWay]

Topic for debate.
How can anyone be judged by God, if all are sinful by nature (i.e. by their limited human capabilities)?

God set it up that way.

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to Shem Yoshi in post #1]

Topic for debate.
How can anyone be judged by God, if all are sinful by nature (i.e. by their limited human capabilities)?

Although humans have a sinful nature they are born with, they are also kept in existence by God himself. This is why nothing can be purely evil.

You are judged based upon what you have and know. Jesus said to whom much is given, much is required. God works in everyone. If we don't ignore God, then we can move toward the good. Everyone has this power to ignore God or not.

[Shem Yoshi]

[Replying to Shem Yoshi in post #1]

Topic for debate.
How can anyone be judged by God, if all are sinful by nature (i.e. by their limited human capabilities)?

Although humans have a sinful nature they are born with, they are also kept in existence by God himself. This is why nothing can be purely evil.

You are judged based upon what you have and know. Jesus said to whom much is given, much is required. God works in everyone. If we don't ignore God, then we can move toward the good. Everyone has this power to ignore God or not.

but any sin must be a result of not knowing God, not understanding true... We are judged on what we know, but even a man in rebellion must not know the truth.

[1213]

Romans 3:11 states "there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God."

isnt understanding fundamental to actions? If someone knows right and wrong, what to do, when to do it, how, perfection, they ought not sin. Even in temptations, if someone knows, heaven, hell, see's through deception, understands why they should not sin, then they wouldnt sin. Even Eve was said to be deceived. Even a person in rebellion from God must not understand God, not know the truth, or they wouldnt rebel. If someone understand that hell awaits, and what it is, wouldnt they not go? ...

If one doesn't do bad things only because of fear, I don't think that is righteous, and as said in the Bible, eternal life is for righteous.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

I agree that understanding is fundamental, but I also think that some people just want to do bad things even when they know it is wrong.

[bjs1]

If someone knows right and wrong, what to do, when to do it, how, perfection, they ought not sin. Even in temptations, if someone knows, heaven, hell, see's through deception, understands why they should not sin, then they wouldn't sin.

The change in language is significant. In the first sentence it says people “ought not sin.” In the second sentence it says people, “wouldn’t sin.” It is true that a person with knowledge of God ought not sin, but not true that this person wouldn’t sin. People do not always do what is right even when they “know better.”

A smoker might know that cigarettes cause cancer, heart disease and other health problems, and that most people don’t like being around smokers and the smell turns people away. He still might continue to smoke.

Knowledge on its own is not sufficient. Just knowing that something is both bad and bad for us is not always enough to prevent us from doing that thing.

[OneWay]

[Replying to Shem Yoshi in post #1]

Topic for debate.
How can anyone be judged by God, if all are sinful by nature (i.e. by their limited human capabilities)?

Although humans have a sinful nature they are born with, they are also kept in existence by God himself. This is why nothing can be purely evil.

God created evil.