Should Christians fast more?

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historia
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Should Christians fast more?

Post #1

Post by historia »

As I write this, we are in the midst of Advent, a time when historically Christians fasted.

That practice is still observed in the Eastern Churches, but is not obligatory in the West. Even during Lent, many western Christians don't really fast, instead just refraining from a single type of food or a particular activity. To my knowledge, Evangelicals and many sectarian groups don't encourage fasting at all.

Question for debate: Should Christians fast more?

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Re: Should Christians fast more?

Post #21

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Runner wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:31 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:09 pmFURTHER READING : Why is Matthew 17:21 missing or only a footnote in my Bible?
https://www.neverthirsty.org/bible-qa/q ... -in-bible/
Unfortunately, we really don't have much to discuss if you only adhere to the newest, most modern, counterfeits of Scripture.
emphasis MINE

You refer to "counterfeits of Scripture" as if modern biblical scholarship supports falsification of bible maniscripts. Are you suggesting that the verse was indeed part of the original gospel and most biblicak scholars are in error? If so, I would be interested in reading your supporting evidence.




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Re: Should Christians fast more?

Post #22

Post by Runner »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:28 pm By far the majority of bible texts are undisputed, those that are are usually for factualy sound reasons. The verse in question is not to be found in available earlier text which indicates a addition. If you wish to present an exposé as to why you think the verse is an authentic part of the original gospel, feel free to do so. Preferebly without the implied ad hominem.


JW
Don't start making false accusations with me. That is an implied ad hominem attack in itself as it is a lie. I have not attacked anyone. If you're too sensitive to discuss Scripture, maybe another Discussion Forum would be a better fit. Discussions about beliefs can be touchy, but if it's too much for you, don't try and blame it on me with your false accusations that have no evidence with which to support such a fabricated case.

The proof you are asking for is found in the Bible as a whole. The Bible speaks of fasting throughout the OT and Jesus mentions it multiple times in the NT. If that's not enough proof for you to accept that He expects those who are told to purify themselves to understand that fasting is expected, that's perfectly fine. Believe what tickles your ears as Scripture states that those who do not believe what the Bible teaches seek only to have their ears tickled with what they want to believe.

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Re: Should Christians fast more?

Post #23

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Runner wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:38 pm
The proof you are asking for is found in the Bible as a whole.
I am not disputing that there is merit in looking to various supporting text as additional evidence, but since most interpolations are at least superficially , scripturally supportable, the primary evidence must lie in the historically verifiable manuscripts.

Runner wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:14 pm You can't claim you desire to have an intelligent debate if you don't even agree with the basis that is the foundation of said debate
Since we are talking about the authentication of manuscripts, the basis must primarily be the available manuscripts.


Runner wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 12:27 pm Can we see your Greek interpretation for Matthew 17:21 please?
You asked me specifically for a comment on the greek texts of Matthew 17:21; that verse is historically disputed. If you have case to male to support the position (held by a minority of bible translators) that the verse was indeed part of the original text, you have but to present your evidence to that end. Internal indicators are, as I said, simply not enough when it comes to scribal error or interpolation. If the verse was there in the original why did it only appear in later manuscripts?



As for internal support for Christian fasting I have already presented my views -->> See post #8





Regards,


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

PS I forgot to say... welcome to the forum!
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Re: Should Christians fast more?

Post #24

Post by 2timothy316 »

Runner wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:31 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:09 pmFURTHER READING : Why is Matthew 17:21 missing or only a footnote in my Bible?
https://www.neverthirsty.org/bible-qa/q ... -in-bible/
Unfortunately, we really don't have much to discuss if you only adhere to the newest, most modern, counterfeits of Scripture.

There is no foundation for us to stand upon together to discuss different perspectives.

Not all Bibles contain the most consistent Truth. And it is those that are closer in their dates of publication to the original source of the data that are the most accurate, not those that are further away as modern mainstream churchianity would have us believe.
So I'm guessing only the Bibles that match your dogma are not counterfeits?
What makes a Bible counterfeit? Only because it's more modern and newer? Is this the only criteria?

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Re: Should Christians fast more?

Post #25

Post by Runner »

2timothy316 wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:56 pmWhat makes a Bible counterfeit?
When the concepts of verses, that are changed/removed, are taught elsewhere in Scripture, or made understood through the weight of Scripture as a whole.

Take Proverbs 18:1 for example. Look at the KJV verse and compare it to ANY newer translation. There is literally no explanation for such a deliberate mangling, and completely changing, of that verse other than to teach a totally different concept. That is, to completely mislead the reader.

Yet what do we see throughout the rest of Scripture? A repeated suggestion, even command, to separate from the masses, and from those who are unholy.

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Re: Should Christians fast more?

Post #26

Post by 2timothy316 »

Runner wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:56 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:56 pmWhat makes a Bible counterfeit?
When the concepts of verses, that are changed/removed, are taught elsewhere in Scripture, or made understood through the weight of Scripture as a whole.

Take Proverbs 18:1 for example. Look at the KJV verse and compare it to ANY newer translation. There is literally no explanation for such a deliberate mangling, and completely changing, of that verse other than to teach a totally different concept. That is, to completely mislead the reader.

Yet what do we see throughout the rest of Scripture? A repeated suggestion, even command, to separate from the masses, and from those who are unholy.
So, its not just if a Bible is newer that makes is better or worse. There seems to be more to your formula.
What proof do you have there is deliberate mangling with the intent to mislead with newer translations? Or is this an opinion?

I have read several versions of Prov 18:1 and the basically all mean the same thing to me. A person that separates himself from others makes himself seeks his own wisdom and rejects all other wisdom. So I don't see your point using that scripture.

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Re: Should Christians fast more?

Post #27

Post by Runner »

2timothy316 wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:00 pm So, its not just if a Bible is newer that makes is better or worse.
What proof do you have there is deliberate mangling with the intent to mislead with newer translations? Or is this an opinion?

I have read several versions of Prov 18:1 and the basically all mean the same thing to me. A person that separates himself from others makes himself seeks his own wisdom and rejects all other wisdom. So I don't see your point using that scripture.
That's because you have no experience, or interaction, with the KJV.

A sad fact for most modern mainstream Christians.

As stated, if the translation that came first, the KJV's, coincides with the rest of the Bible as a whole, it is rightfully the correct one. You can dance around this particular argument all you like, but in a court of law, the case would be dismissed within about an hour in favor of the accuracy of the KJV due to its continuity of concepts throughout. The majority of other, newer, translations would be deemed faulty very easily for their lack of continuity and outright disjointed teachings due to so many verses being altered and removed.

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Re: Should Christians fast more?

Post #28

Post by 2timothy316 »

Runner wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:20 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:00 pm So, its not just if a Bible is newer that makes is better or worse.
What proof do you have there is deliberate mangling with the intent to mislead with newer translations? Or is this an opinion?

I have read several versions of Prov 18:1 and the basically all mean the same thing to me. A person that separates himself from others makes himself seeks his own wisdom and rejects all other wisdom. So I don't see your point using that scripture.
That's because you have no experience, or interaction, with the KJV.

A sad fact for most modern mainstream Christians.

As stated, if the translation that came first, the KJV's, coincides with the rest of the Bible as a whole, it is rightfully the correct one. You can dance around this particular argument all you like, but in a court of law, the case would be dismissed within about an hour in favor of the accuracy of the KJV due to its continuity of concepts throughout. The majority of other, newer, translations would be deemed faulty very easily for their lack of continuity and outright disjointed teachings due to so many verses being altered and removed.
As far as a court of law, you would have to show proof that the KJV is better. Which you have not provided. So far, I have only read a lot of opinion and that doesn't make something true.

Also, which KJV? There are 1000 versions and editions of the KJV. Which KJV is best in your opinion?

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Re: Should Christians fast more?

Post #29

Post by Runner »

2timothy316 wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:32 pmAs far as a court of law, you would have to show proof that the KJV is better.
Nope. Just present a good 1611 KJV as evidence against all newer translations. The court would very easily see that its contents followed its own teachings much better than the newer versions.

Done and done.

Shall we discuss fasting?

Yes, Christians absolutely should fast more.

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Re: Should Christians fast more?

Post #30

Post by 2timothy316 »

Runner wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 5:26 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:32 pmAs far as a court of law, you would have to show proof that the KJV is better.
Nope. Just present a good 1611 KJV as evidence against all newer translations. The court would very easily see that its contents followed its own teachings much better than the newer versions.

Done and done.

Shall we discuss fasting?

Yes, Christians absolutely should fast more.
So I ask for facts and you give me imagination, opinion and a deflection. If you can't provide proof your Bible is best, how can your prove anything about fasting? I accept your surrender.

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