Is the Debate Between Science and Religion Unnecessary?

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

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Is the Debate Between Science and Religion Unnecessary?

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Post by Diogenes »

My friend Gary Conkling writes about the potential conflict between science and relgion.
Question for debate: Is there necessarily conflict between science and relgion?
People with religious beliefs often view science as anti-religious, even as an attack on religion. The tension between scientific inquiry and religious zealotry is real. Scientists focus on questions while zealots settle for answers, sometimes based on dubious evidence or misconstrued history.

There is a path through the tension. Scientists don’t have to dismiss a greater force and zealots have to rely on faith rather than crypto-facts. We could someday figure out how the universe truly works, but still never know how it came to be. The desire – and for many the desperate need – to know there is something larger out there larger than life as we know it can yield an emotional calm and an enhanced ability to deal with very real and present distress.
....
Questions are not disbelief. Probabilities are safer to cling to than facts in assessing the universe. The scientific method and faith are not incompatible.
https://garyconklinglifenotes.wordpress ... UfIEseHtLQ

Is there a religion that seeks truth, rather than declaring it?
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Re: Is the Debate Between Science and Religion Unnecessary?

Post #71

Post by Eloi »

Eloi wrote: Fri Feb 10, 2023 4:03 pm (...) Actually, there are people who, although they claim to be scientists, only disguise their inability to confront reality to the point of denying the most obvious facts ... (...)
For example: some deny the fact that life only comes from life.

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Re: Is the Debate Between Science and Religion Unnecessary?

Post #72

Post by brunumb »

Eloi wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 12:08 pm
Eloi wrote: Fri Feb 10, 2023 4:03 pm (...) Actually, there are people who, although they claim to be scientists, only disguise their inability to confront reality to the point of denying the most obvious facts ... (...)
For example: some deny the fact that life only comes from life.
Really? Can you cite any references showing this? I have not seen it, although theists often use the notion as evidence that a god is necessary.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Re: Is the Debate Between Science and Religion Unnecessary?

Post #73

Post by Miles »

Eloi wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 12:08 pm
Eloi wrote: Fri Feb 10, 2023 4:03 pm (...) Actually, there are people who, although they claim to be scientists, only disguise their inability to confront reality to the point of denying the most obvious facts ... (...)
For example: some deny the fact that life only comes from life.
At present this is certainly the case; however, science is pretty well convinced that 3.5 + billion years ago life did emerge from non-life (abiogenesis), with some scientists even proposing this occurred more than once.

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Re: Is the Debate Between Science and Religion Unnecessary?

Post #74

Post by The Barbarian »

Eloi wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 12:08 pm
Eloi wrote: Fri Feb 10, 2023 4:03 pm (...) Actually, there are people who, although they claim to be scientists, only disguise their inability to confront reality to the point of denying the most obvious facts ... (...)
For example: some deny the fact that life only comes from life.
Not according to God. He says that the Earth brought forth living things. I realize that some people think the Earth is alive. Is that your position, or are you saying that God is wrong?
Last edited by The Barbarian on Sun Feb 12, 2023 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is the Debate Between Science and Religion Unnecessary?

Post #75

Post by brunumb »

The Barbarian wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 9:01 pm Not according to God. He says that the Earth brought forth living things.
That sounds very much like abiogenesis. O:)
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Re: Is the Debate Between Science and Religion Unnecessary?

Post #76

Post by Miles »

brunumb wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 12:18 am
The Barbarian wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 9:01 pm Not according to God. He says that the Earth brought forth living things.
That sounds very much like abiogenesis. O:)
Well, it is what the Bible says.

Genesis 1:11-12, 24
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
24 “And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so."

So abiogenesis it is. :approve: .... Take that, you creationists. \:D/

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Re: Is the Debate Between Science and Religion Unnecessary?

Post #77

Post by The Barbarian »

brunumb wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 12:18 am
The Barbarian wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 9:01 pm Not according to God. He says that the Earth brought forth living things.
That sounds very much like abiogenesis. O:)
Well, yes. Scientists are finding more and more evidence supporting His word on this.

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Re: Is the Debate Between Science and Religion Unnecessary?

Post #78

Post by Tcg »

The Barbarian wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 9:05 am
brunumb wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 12:18 am
The Barbarian wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 9:01 pm Not according to God. He says that the Earth brought forth living things.
That sounds very much like abiogenesis. O:)
Well, yes. Scientists are finding more and more evidence supporting His word on this.
I'll look forward to when scientists find evidence of this which sounds nothing like abiogenesis:
Genesis 2:21 So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh. 22 And the rib that the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man.
Who knew the female of our species abiogenesised this way.


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Re: Is the Debate Between Science and Religion Unnecessary?

Post #79

Post by Tcg »

The Barbarian wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 9:01 pm
Not according to God. He says that the Earth brought forth living things. I realize that some people think the Earth is alive. Is that your position, or are you saying that God is wrong?
Wait, you are suggesting that God wrote Genesis? Got any evidence to support that claim?


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Is the Debate Between Science and Religion Unnecessary?

Post #80

Post by The Barbarian »

Tcg wrote: Mon Feb 13, 2023 1:25 am
The Barbarian wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 9:01 pm
Not according to God. He says that the Earth brought forth living things. I realize that some people think the Earth is alive. Is that your position, or are you saying that God is wrong?
Wait, you are suggesting that God wrote Genesis? Got any evidence to support that claim? Tcg
As a Christian, I affirm that God did indeed author the Bible. Obviously, this involved inspiring men who wrote down what He gave to them. Can this mean that the message God gave us is infallible, but not inerrant? Yes, that is true. Things outside the intent of God can be in the Bible and not literally true. For example, the Earth does not have pillars holding it up, even if the Bible speaks of the pillars of the Earth. Likewise, there aren't windows in the sky through which rain falls, even if the Bible speaks of such things. If someone tells you that they've been to the ends of the Earth, that does not mean there is an end to the Earth. Metaphoric language and allegory is not a sign of God making a mistake.

But this is a matter of faith, as religion always is. Science depends on evidence, but religion depends on faith. As Stephen Gould remarked, "non-overlapping magisteria."

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