Is the Debate Between Science and Religion Unnecessary?

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Diogenes
Guru
Posts: 1304
Joined: Sun May 24, 2020 12:53 pm
Location: Washington
Has thanked: 862 times
Been thanked: 1265 times

Is the Debate Between Science and Religion Unnecessary?

Post #1

Post by Diogenes »

My friend Gary Conkling writes about the potential conflict between science and relgion.
Question for debate: Is there necessarily conflict between science and relgion?
People with religious beliefs often view science as anti-religious, even as an attack on religion. The tension between scientific inquiry and religious zealotry is real. Scientists focus on questions while zealots settle for answers, sometimes based on dubious evidence or misconstrued history.

There is a path through the tension. Scientists don’t have to dismiss a greater force and zealots have to rely on faith rather than crypto-facts. We could someday figure out how the universe truly works, but still never know how it came to be. The desire – and for many the desperate need – to know there is something larger out there larger than life as we know it can yield an emotional calm and an enhanced ability to deal with very real and present distress.
....
Questions are not disbelief. Probabilities are safer to cling to than facts in assessing the universe. The scientific method and faith are not incompatible.
https://garyconklinglifenotes.wordpress ... UfIEseHtLQ

Is there a religion that seeks truth, rather than declaring it?
___________________________________

Before You Embark On A Journey Of Revenge, Dig Two Graves

— Confucius

User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 14000
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 906 times
Been thanked: 1629 times
Contact:

Re: Is the Debate Between Science and Religion Unnecessary?

Post #91

Post by William »

Miles wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 3:36 pm
William wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 3:20 pm [Replying to Miles in post #87]

Show me where I was saying any such thing.
It's a direct quote from post Post #85

.
The direct quote isn't the issue. The strawman argument you returned is.

User avatar
Miles
Savant
Posts: 5179
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 434 times
Been thanked: 1614 times

Re: Is the Debate Between Science and Religion Unnecessary?

Post #92

Post by Miles »

William wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 3:49 pm
Miles wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 3:36 pm
William wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 3:20 pm [Replying to Miles in post #87]

Show me where I was saying any such thing.
It's a direct quote from post Post #85

.
You did not quote what I said
What you said (post 85) and What I quoted you as saying (post 87)

According to the evidence that I have encountered, there appears to be illustrations of "mindless acceptance" involved with the nontheist crowd as
According to the evidence that I have encountered, there appears to be illustrations of "mindless acceptance" involved with the nontheist crowd as

well, so there is nothing apparently remarkable in these type words declaring the problem is all on the theist side.
well, so there is nothing apparently remarkable in these type words declaring the problem is all on the theist side.


However, I do question the legitimacy of the use of the word "mindless" as it is obvious that things are being done very mindfully,
However, I do question the legitimacy of the use of the word "mindless" as it is obvious that things are being done very mindfully,

no matter what position is being defended.
no matter what position is being defended.

.

User avatar
Miles
Savant
Posts: 5179
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 434 times
Been thanked: 1614 times

Re: Is the Debate Between Science and Religion Unnecessary?

Post #93

Post by Miles »

William wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 3:50 pm
Miles wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 3:36 pm
William wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 3:20 pm [Replying to Miles in post #87]

Show me where I was saying any such thing.
It's a direct quote from post Post #85

.
The direct quote isn't the issue.
Then why ask about it?

ME: So you don't think "If a flat earth was good enough for gramps it's good enough for me." is an example of mindless acceptance? Okay.

YOU: Show me where I was saying any such thing.

ME:It's a direct quote from post Post #85


The strawman argument you returned is.
Initially, I remarked on a comment of The Barbarian's. ME: Nice, but my flat earth reference was not one related to historical significance but an illustration of mindless acceptance.

To which you replied:"I do question the legitimacy of the use of the word "mindless" as it is obvious that things are being done very mindfully, no matter what position is being defended."

To which I asked: So you don't think "If a flat earth was good enough for gramps it's good enough for me" is an example of mindless acceptance?

But to get out of answering my question you turn to making an accusation: The direct quote isn't the issue. The strawman argument you returned is [the issue].

So, in as much as I didn't return a thing, but rather asked a question, exactly what strawman do you see me having set up? Although, to tell you the truth I don't believe you actually know what a strawman argument is.


.

User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 14000
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 906 times
Been thanked: 1629 times
Contact:

Re: Is the Debate Between Science and Religion Unnecessary?

Post #94

Post by William »

According to the evidence that I have encountered, there appears to be illustrations of "mindless acceptance" involved with the nontheist crowd as well, so there is nothing apparently remarkable in these type words declaring the problem is all on the theist side.

However, I do question the legitimacy of the use of the word "mindless" as it is obvious that things are being done very mindfully, no matter what position is being defended.

User avatar
Miles
Savant
Posts: 5179
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 434 times
Been thanked: 1614 times

Re: Is the Debate Between Science and Religion Unnecessary?

Post #95

Post by Miles »

William wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 9:21 pm According to the evidence that I have encountered, there appears to be illustrations of "mindless acceptance" involved with the nontheist crowd as well, so there is nothing apparently remarkable in these type words declaring the problem is all on the theist side.
The theology one embraces is irrelevant, and I agree that it's unremarkable, rather it's an example of mindless acceptance. As I once asked but never got an answer to:

So you don't think [the statement]: "If a flat earth was good enough for gramps it's good enough for me" is an example of mindless acceptance?"

Evidently not because either you don't grasp the meaning of "mindless," or you honestly think "If a flat earth was good enough for gramps it's good enough for me" is a rational point of view; that just because gramps believed a falsehood is good enough reason for you to believe it.


Ainsi soit-il


.

User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 14000
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 906 times
Been thanked: 1629 times
Contact:

Re: Is the Debate Between Science and Religion Unnecessary?

Post #96

Post by William »

[Replying to Miles in post #95]

What makes you think that I think what gramps believes is rational and debatable?

User avatar
Miles
Savant
Posts: 5179
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 434 times
Been thanked: 1614 times

Re: Is the Debate Between Science and Religion Unnecessary?

Post #97

Post by Miles »

William wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:44 am [Replying to Miles in post #95]

What makes you think that I think what gramps believes is rational and debatable?
I don't. Please read my post more carefully.

.

User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 14000
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 906 times
Been thanked: 1629 times
Contact:

Re: Is the Debate Between Science and Religion Unnecessary?

Post #98

Post by William »

Miles wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 3:49 pm
William wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:44 am [Replying to Miles in post #95]

What makes you think that I think what gramps believes is rational and debatable?
I don't. Please read my post more carefully.

.
Do you have a problem with my pointing out that according to the evidence that I have encountered, there appears to be illustrations of "mindless acceptance" involved with the nontheist crowd as well, so there is nothing apparently remarkable in these type words declaring the problem is all on the theist side?

or is it something else?

User avatar
Miles
Savant
Posts: 5179
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 434 times
Been thanked: 1614 times

Re: Is the Debate Between Science and Religion Unnecessary?

Post #99

Post by Miles »

William wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:16 pm
Miles wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 3:49 pm
William wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:44 am [Replying to Miles in post #95]

What makes you think that I think what gramps believes is rational and debatable?
I don't. Please read my post more carefully.

.
Do you have a problem with my pointing out that according to the evidence that I have encountered, there appears to be illustrations of "mindless acceptance" involved with the nontheist crowd as well, so there is nothing apparently remarkable in these type words declaring the problem is all on the theist side?
Other than being irrelevant, no.

.

User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 14000
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 906 times
Been thanked: 1629 times
Contact:

Re: Is the Debate Between Science and Religion Unnecessary?

Post #100

Post by William »

It is relevent to tje thread topic...

Post Reply