Does the USA need to STOP supporting ISRAEL NOW-?

[thomasdixon]

The USA has looked the other way while Israelis murder Palestinian children

The USA has looked the other way while Israelis destroy Palestinian fishing boats.

The USA has looked the other way while Israelis murder American citizens.

The USA has looked the other way while Israelis destroy Palestinian villages and then build illegally on top of the rubble.

28 Dec 2022
Benjamin Netanyahu’s incoming hardline government put West Bank settlement expansion at the top of its list of priorities on Wednesday, vowing to legalise dozens of illegally built outposts and annex the occupied territory as part of its coalition deal with its ultranational allies.
Netanyahu government makes West Bank settlement expansion its priority

We, as Americans, including American Jews must band together and demand that we, citizens of America STOP giving Israel money.
We must make our voices heard in Congress and directly to Biden.

Israel should be designated a terrorist state-?

opinions welcome yes/no/why

[thomasdixon]

What sickens me the most is the Israeli government sniper teams shooting children. This in itself, is a war crime

IDF shooting children
https://tinyurl.com/yxetctr8

Israel destroying Palestinian fishing boats
https://tinyurl.com/mryr5v79

illegal settlements
https://tinyurl.com/yckn2wzh

I was once a devoted believer in Israel and defended them whenever/wherever I could.
Now I am a bit confused, should I ignore the above or not?
You tell me

[Purple Knight]

https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Co ... pet_cities

[otseng]

https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Co ... pet_cities

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[Purple Knight]

Please provide more than a link in order to avoid it being a one-liner response.

Sorry about that. My opinion on this issue is not exactly the morally correct one, which is that the Israel lobby has too much power. To be fair this is because I think lobbying at all is an unfair power gain by interests that are trading favours for policy and I can't see how it's not outlawed, and I'm forced to basically agree with the OP about Israel to be ideologically consistent.

I can either say, lobbying is fine it's just free speech, tobacco companies should absolutely be allowed to lobby for policy to take the warning labels off their products or even have FDA policy changed to make it okay to claim cigarettes are safe... or I can say that Israel shouldn't have so much power over US policy either.

It's a complicated issue for me because I don't happen to think Israel is on the wrong side of the Israel/Palestine conflict. It's basically war, and people die. So I think it's probably right for the US to support Israel. Just not because "it's a democracy lol" (which would be equivalent to us supporting Nazis as long as the country got that way through democratic elections) or because the Israel lobby pays our policymakers to favour them.

More to the point of the topic, I don't think Israel is doing anything terribly outside the bounds of a conflict. But it's still massively unfair that the US just backs them no matter what. In other words, if we're going to do the right thing, it should be because it's the right thing, not because we're a puppet state.

[oldbadger]

The USA has looked the other way while Israelis murder Palestinian children

The USA has looked the other way while Israelis destroy Palestinian fishing boats.

The USA has looked the other way while Israelis murder American citizens.

The USA has looked the other way while Israelis destroy Palestinian villages and then build illegally on top of the rubble.

Trouble is, in the UK too many of our MPs don't want to speak out against Israel because journalists have grabbed hold of such comments and dubbed them 'AntiSemitic' in the past. One of our Political leaders was destroyed by such claims and other claims that he covered up AntiSemitism...... but nobody ever detailed what those original claims might have been....ever.

And so any criticism of Israel jumped in to anti-Zionism which automatically jumped over in to Anti-Semitism ........ political suicide.

Some Catholics of Northern Ireland have viewed their position there as similar to that of the Muslims of the Gaza Strip and I photographed a street Mural in a Belfast back street which showed an IRA warrior saluting a Gaza Strip Hamas warrior, I still have it but don't know how to show it on this forum.

I have the greatest respect for Jewish people but you can bet that any criticism of Israel will produce claims that the writer must be some kind of anti-Semitist, or even a nazi sympathiser......... so don't expect Western Politicians to be speaking out about Israeli atrocities and Racism, many are scared stiff about doing that.

[thomasdixon]

Trouble is, in the UK too many of our MPs don't want to speak out against Israel because journalists have grabbed hold of such comments and dubbed them 'AntiSemitic' in the past.

When you let intimidation keep you from doing what is right this doesn’t make you an antisemite, it makes you a coward in the third degree.

I have the greatest respect for Jewish people but you can bet that any criticism of Israel will produce claims that the writer must be some kind of anti-Semitist, or even a nazi sympathiser.........

Jews are not the problem, Israelis are.

Israelis falsely use biblical verses to justify their personal bond with God. the verses state-
(Deu 7:6 KJV) For thou art a holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
(Deu 7:7 KJV) The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
(Deu 7:8 KJV) But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers

The above is true, but they failed to read the rest. The relationship between God and the Jews was conditional.

(Deu 7:12 KJV) Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he swore unto thy fathers:
The Jews failed to follow the Lord’s commandments which ended their special relationship between God and The Jews.

The term stranger is used 128 times in the KJV of the Bible. In every case the verse instructs the Jews how to treat the “stranger”, regrettably the Jews never, ever complied with the God’s directives, but did the opposite instead.
God became disgusted with His chosen ones and said this—
[/b](Ezek 36:17 KJV) Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their ..own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.
(Ezek 36:18 KJV) Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it.

(Ezek 36:32 KJV) Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.
(Ezekiel 21:32 (ASV) Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; thou shalt be no more remembered: for I, Jehovah, have spoken it.

According to a 2002 study by the Jewish Agency, "the number of Jews in the world is declining at an average of 50,000 per year."
https://tinyurl.com/y6ryw6hf

[oldbadger]

When you let intimidation keep you from doing what is right this doesn’t make you an anti-Semite, it makes you a coward in the third degree.

When 'you' write to people like that it looks as if 'you' are accusing them of thinking differently to 'you'.
...just saying.....

But yes, folks in the West seem to be worried about criticising Israel for fear of being branded Anti-Semitic, and the Press and media (for attention) here will snatch up any criticism of Israel and pretend that it is Anti-Semitism. It does take a lot of guts to be the first to stand up, but that's what our leaders should be doing.

Jews are not the problem, Israelis are.

Yes.
An author was on TV last night to discuss his new book which basically accuses socialist people of Anti-Semitism because they are picking on the 'very rich' and the very rich are mostly Jewish...he claimed. When the presenter asked him how this was happening the author waded off in to waffle with not a single example of exactly how left wing folks were exhibiting Anti-Semitism.

Israelis falsely use biblical verses to justify their personal bond with God[/b]. the verses state-

I bet they are....... but then, so do most other Abrahamic religion followers quote from the bible to support their mindsets and actions.

I can understand what AntiSemitism is, like when folks deny the actions of the Nazis such as the Holocaust, or hurt/intimidate Jews, or victimise Jews, etc, but when claims of AntiSemitism can not show this......... I don't believe them.

[Purple Knight]

When you let intimidation keep you from doing what is right this doesn’t make you an antisemite, it makes you a coward in the third degree.

There is no "let" about it. In this case you speak out against Israel and you get destroyed. Getting destroyed doesn't help anybody either, so it's not as if there's some trade here, trading your political life for some positive outcome. You try to do the right thing here and you get excluded from the process, meaning there is no benefit to anyone for the sacrifice. It's like saying me not cutting off my arm makes me a coward. Well maybe, if me cutting off my arm would do somebody some good, but it doesn't.

[oldbadger]

When you let intimidation keep you from doing what is right this doesn’t make you an antisemite, it makes you a coward in the third degree.

There is no "let" about it. In this case you speak out against Israel and you get destroyed. Getting destroyed doesn't help anybody either, so it's not as if there's some trade here, trading your political life for some positive outcome. You try to do the right thing here and you get excluded from the process, meaning there is no benefit to anyone for the sacrifice. It's like saying me not cutting off my arm makes me a coward. Well maybe, if me cutting off my arm would do somebody some good, but it doesn't.

That's right. It happened to Jeremy Corbyn in the UK, his position was trashed by claims of AntiSemitism and yet I never actually heard about any one clear description of any such act. This doesn't mean that would vote for Jeremy, it just is true.

I never take much notice about folks chucking the 'if you don't do this you you are a coward' thing about. I love the degree scale! Even the bravest of Generals will retreat or stay their hand when necessary.