Does he pop up in my dreams? Is he the one whom produces my goose-bumps? Is He the one giving me my "moral compass"? Is he only experienced during deep meditation? If I have enough faith, will he appear to me? But seriously. Where is he? I was a Christian for decades. I earnestly prayed for him to reach me, to no avail.
For debate: Why have I not felt his presence?
A) I never tried hard enough; lack faith
B) He does not want to reveal Himself to me (yet)
C) Evil is blocking the request(s)
D) I'm too dumb to realize he's reaching me
E) He's not really there at all <- Current conclusion
Do not answer yet. This topic has spawned from another unrelated topic. I decided to devote this large topic to itself. Below are some premises:
P1) does god exist? (dunno)
P2) does god want a relationship with all, especially the ones who seek him (apparently so)
P3) is god capable of communicating (apparently so)
P4) can god communicate his message in a way in which the recipient could no longer deny (apparently so)
P5) have I asked for this communication earnestly and repetitively (YES)
P6) does the Bible state god answers the call to all who seek him (YES)
At best, god has opted not to contact me YET. And this would be after decades of actively seeking him. Without any emotion, I'm logically left with 2 options.
A) God is not really there <- Current conclusion.
B) God is not adhering to his promise (yet).
Where's God?
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Where's God?
Post #1In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: Where's God?
Post #201I see this response as a false analogy. You are assuming I possess are large deficit (i.e.) I do not have the ability to "see". If I do not have the ability to see, then I could never see colors in the physical world.AquinasForGod wrote: ↑Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:11 am If you were tasked with trying to explain what the experience of seeing colors was like to a person born blind, how would you go about doing so?
I know that I could not. I would have to give them sight.
In this case, I assume you and I possess all the same faculties. Do you possess some faculty, in which I do not? (i.e.)
1. What large deficit do I have here, in which you possess for 'experiencing' or 'seeing' God? "faith", other? (Before answering, see question 2.)
2. (from the OP) - Why did God decide to reveal Himself to you, and not me? As stated prior, in our exchange, I used to have a lot of faith.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: Where's God?
Post #203So, if a god could give that blind man his sight...AquinasForGod wrote: ↑Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:11 amIf you were tasked with trying to explain what the experience of seeing colors was like to a person born blind, how would you go about doing so?POI wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:48 pmSo basically the answer is, "you'll know when you know?"AquinasForGod wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:36 pm [Replying to POI in post #190]
It is not like God shows favoritism. Anyone of any faith and even atheists can experience God. When an atheist experiences God, he ends up believing.
How the person interprets God is up to them. They will most likely interpret it via their cultures religion, unless of course Jesus visits them like he did Paul.
I know that I could not. I would have to give them sight.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
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Re: Where's God?
Post #204Oh Dear. Oh Dear. How are we to determine which is the OTJ*?
* One True Joey
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
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Re: Where's God?
Post #205[Replying to POI in post #1]
How would you respond to this video that would suggest there are no "i use to be a Christian"
How would you respond to this video that would suggest there are no "i use to be a Christian"
“Them that die'll be the lucky ones.”
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Re: Where's God?
Post #206I find the clip reinforces my hypothesis that religious belief is a sort of placeholder for that which we don't understand.Shem Yoshi wrote: ↑Tue Feb 07, 2023 11:24 pm [Replying to POI in post #1]
How would you respond to this video that would suggest there are no "i use to be a Christian"
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
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Re: Where's God?
Post #207One cannot really rationalize with a presuppositionalist anyways. This is exactly what Sye Ten Bruggencate is... "Presupps" merely presuppose GOD is the foundation for their reasoning, no matter what. And the question then becomes, why? Is it merely due to the argument from ignorance alone, or, any other fallacious type of reasoning? Further, if you read what I have written elsewhere, it was still a process which ultimately took me decades. I didn't just wake up one day and say, "nah, it's not likely."Shem Yoshi wrote: ↑Tue Feb 07, 2023 11:24 pm [Replying to POI in post #1]
How would you respond to this video that would suggest there are no "i use to be a Christian"
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: Where's God?
Post #208The answer to "Why?" can be "because i have faith"... In fact I am ultimately convinced that faith has to be part of our beliefs... Even if you were given undeniable evidence of God, you could still not believe it, or later rationalize out of it... You could always ask for more evidence... Even if some piece of evidence is satisfied, you could just demand for more evidence after that, and that piece gets satisfied and you could demand more.. Ultimately without faith, how can you even know something that is all knowing? You will never have the all knowing knowledge of God... You could just ask for more and more and more, but ultimately faith needs to be part of that belief. Somewhere you would need to have faith, no matter how much evidence you have..POI wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 11:38 amOne cannot really rationalize with a presuppositionalist anyways. This is exactly what Sye Ten Bruggencate is... "Presupps" merely presuppose GOD is the foundation for their reasoning, no matter what. And the question then becomes, why? Is it merely due to the argument from ignorance alone, or, any other fallacious type of reasoning? Further, if you read what I have written elsewhere, it was still a process which ultimately took me decades. I didn't just wake up one day and say, "nah, it's not likely."Shem Yoshi wrote: ↑Tue Feb 07, 2023 11:24 pm [Replying to POI in post #1]
How would you respond to this video that would suggest there are no "i use to be a Christian"
You didnt really answer the question Sye posed... You just attacked his style of debate, like an ad hominem...
How is it that a person can be an unbeliever if they were a believer (which is by faith)? (1 John 2:19)
“Them that die'll be the lucky ones.”
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Re: Where's God?
Post #209That makes no sense to me. If one is given "undeniable evidence of God" then that would mean that the existence of God is irrefutably established and it would make no sense to not believe in God or require more more evidence. If the latter is the case then one must conclude that the initial evidence was not in fact conclusive. This is what we have at present and why the fall back position for believers is invariably faith.Shem Yoshi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 9:38 pm Even if you were given undeniable evidence of God, you could still not believe it, or later rationalize out of it... You could always ask for more evidence... Even if some piece of evidence is satisfied, you could just demand for more evidence after that, and that piece gets satisfied and you could demand more.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
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Re: Where's God?
Post #210perhaps it was a poor choice of words to say "undeniable evidence", never the less the amount of evidence is irrelevant, faith is needed and is the foundation of the belief...brunumb wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:10 pmThat makes no sense to me. If one is given "undeniable evidence of God" then that would mean that the existence of God is irrefutably established and it would make no sense to not believe in God or require more more evidence. If the latter is the case then one must conclude that the initial evidence was not in fact conclusive. This is what we have at present and why the fall back position for believers is invariably faith.Shem Yoshi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 9:38 pm Even if you were given undeniable evidence of God, you could still not believe it, or later rationalize out of it... You could always ask for more evidence... Even if some piece of evidence is satisfied, you could just demand for more evidence after that, and that piece gets satisfied and you could demand more.
I mean you criticized believers for believing on faith, but skepticism has shown that we can doubt existence itself, and that there is no reason to believe in inducing any kinds of conclusions to anything.
At some point belief in God has to be established in faith (as well as everything else).
“Them that die'll be the lucky ones.”