Abraham’s Visitors

[MissKate13]

An Interlinear will show that YHWH was one of three who paid a visit to Abraham. YHWH came to earth as a man. He and the other visitors ate food as any human would do. It was YHWH who Abraham repeatedly asked if there were any righteous men in Sodom would He still destroy it?

If we can believe that YHWH came to earth in the form of a human being, ate and spoke as a man with Abraham, how is it some refuse to believe YHWH came to earth as a man called Jesus?

[Diogenes]

I never said a talking snake flew to heaven in a fiery chariot. Your "reading comprehension is nil". Perhaps you had a " feeble minded" Sunday school teacher if you were told " talking snake .. said to rape and murder" .

Now you're conflating sentences. Inventing statements to make false attributions constitutes a confession you have no fact based argument. You demonstrate a proclivity for not understanding the written word. This may account for your beliefs.

[Difflugia]

The plain meaning of the words are clear, there's no "appear" about it: No human can see God and live! End of story.

The plain meaning of the words is clear: Abraham and Moses saw and spoke to Yahweh, but kept living.

Maybe Yahweh meant that if anyonee sees His face, they'll begin to die, like in the Garden. So Moses and Abraham saw Yahweh's face, but then died like a hundred years later.

[Diogenes]

The plain meaning of the words are clear, there's no "appear" about it: No human can see God and live! End of story.

The plain meaning of the words is clear: Abraham and Moses saw and spoke to Yahweh, but kept living.

Maybe Yahweh meant that if anyonee sees His face, they'll begin to die, like in the Garden. So Moses and Abraham saw Yahweh's face, but then died like a hundred years later.

I've seen science fiction stories that hold together better than these absurdities in the Bible.

[MissKate13]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #27]

Who appears to Abraham in Genesis 18:1, YHWH or an angel?

Who speaks in Genesis 18:13, 17, 20, 26, YHWH or an angel?

[MissKate13]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #13]

You wrote:

None of Abrahams visitors were YHWH (Jehovah); they REPRESENTED and spoke for Jehovah so were called "Jehovah" (YHWH) in the narrative. God was quite catagoric on this, no man can literally see God and live, so Abraham did not see God.”

My response: The Hebrew manuscripts say different. Look at any Hebrew lexicon, Genesis 18:1.

Your own NWT reads, “ Afterward, Jehovah appeared to him among the big trees of Mamʹre while he was sitting at the entrance of the tent during the hottest part of the day.” (Genesis 18:1)

Nothing is mentioned about the visitors “representing” YHWH.

What Abraham saw was YHWH in the flesh of a man. He did not see the YHWH of heaven. It is the same with Jesus who came to earth as YHWH in the flesh of a man.

Quite frankly, I am surprised that you deny that Jehovah appeared to Abraham since you JW’s are so adamant in honoring His personal name.

[1213]

...
What I think you should do is read John 17:3 in its immediate and broader context of the Scriptures.. Cherry picking proves nothing.

In John 17:2, Jesus says that he has authority over all mankind. Who but GOD has ALL authority over man?

Jesus has authority, because God has given it to him.

Jesus came to them and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth.
Matt. 28:18

But when the multitudes saw it, they marveled and glorified God, who had given such authority to men.
Matt. 9:8

When all things have been subjected to him, then the Son will also himself be subjected to him who subjected all things to him, that God may be all in all.
1 Cor. 15:28

And being found in human form, he humbled himself, becoming obedient to death, yes, the death of the cross. Therefore God also highly exalted him, and gave to him the name which is above every name;
Phil. 2:8-9

Without God, Jesus would not have done anything.

I can of myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous; because I don’t seek my own will, but the will of my Father who sent me.
John 5:30

...
In Hebrews 1:8, the Father addresses the SON as GOD. In Hebrews 1:10, the Father addresses the Son as Lord.

Is the Father saying he is not God since he calls his Son God?

In John 13:13, Jesus refers to himself as Master and Lord.
...

Yes, Jesus is Lord. It does not mean he is the one and only true God also.

You call me, ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord.’ You say so correctly, for so I am.
John 13:13

And, “You, Lord, in the beginning, laid the foundation of the earth. The heavens are the works of your hands.
Hebrews 1:10

Jesus and God can both be called Lord, for example because:

‘The Lord said to my Lord, Sit on my right hand, Until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet?’
Matt. 22:44

[MissKate13]

Anytime someone visits a human being for the God of Abraham, they're an angel or the Holy Spirit. I don't see why all of a sudden now it's God himself or Jesus. Other than the burning bush there's no record of God directly visiting anyone, especially in any sort of human or humanoid form.

In many cases we see appearances by the angel of the Lord in Scripture.

However, in Genesis 18:1, we are told it was YHWH who appeared to Abraham. YHWH came in the form of a man. The good book says it, therefore, I believe it. I see no reason not to.

Examine Genesis 18 &19 for yourself. Look at the original Hebrew. Put the teachings of men out of your head, and let the Holy Spirit teach you through His word.

Do you really believe that our all powerful Jehovah is incapable of coming to earth in the form of a human being? Do you think He can’t be in two places or more at one time?

[PolytheistWitch]

he[Replying to MissKate13 in post #37]

Do you really believe that our all powerful Jehovah is incapable of coming to earth in the form of a human being? Do you think He can’t be in two places or more at one time?

Yes. I don't believe your Jehovah is all powerful. And he certainly can't incarnate as a man on Earth.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #13]

You wrote:

None of Abrahams visitors were YHWH (Jehovah); they REPRESENTED and spoke for Jehovah so were called "Jehovah" (YHWH) in the narrative. God was quite catagoric on this, no man can literally see God and live, so Abraham did not see God.”

My response: The Hebrew manuscripts say different. ...

Are you DENYING God's own words here in the Hebrew bible? Please explain them ...




Nothing is mentioned about {to quote you} "in the flesh of a man", God didn't say "You cannot see me but you CAN see me if I'm in the flesh of a man"! Jehovah (YHWH) said "no man can see **ME**" Was it Him or was it not him? If it wasn't really HIM then we are in agreement. If it was HIM either you or God have made mistake.




Case closed.


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[MissKate13]

he[Replying to MissKate13 in post #37]

Do you really believe that our all powerful Jehovah is incapable of coming to earth in the form of a human being? Do you think He can’t be in two places or more at one time?

Yes. I don't believe your Jehovah is all powerful. And he certainly can't incarnate as a man on Earth.

Since you don’t believe YHWH is all powerful, and that Jesus never incarnated as a man on earth, we have no common ground for discussion. There’s nothing more to say except I wish you the best and will pray for you as I do all unbelievers that you may come to know our Father in heaven and his Son who gave his life for you.