JehovahsWitness and them 144,000

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JehovahsWitness and them 144,000

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Post by Conversator »

Alright, a little background. I live in an orthodox Jewish neighborhood, and one day some JehovahsWitnesses came into our neighborhood and caused problems. They knocked on my door, told me I'm going to hell and asked if I was OK with that. They also said something about 144,000 people go to heaven and offered to sell me a pamplhet that talked about it. It was two bucks by the way, and no, I didn't buy it.

A few days later our synagogue was vandalized, the camera footage was reviewed and it was the same two JehovahsWitnesses who had knocked on my door. They broke two windows and threw a dead cat in there. They were jailed, but not charged with a hate crime, but that's another story altogether.

Out of curiosity, what did that two dollar pamphlet say? I doubt it said to kill cats and break windows. 144,000 people go to heaven? OK, fair enough its your religion, but how do those 144,000 merit entrance into heaven? Please don't say, selling two dollar pamphlets.
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Re: JehovahsWitness and them 144,000

Post #21

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Conversator wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 7:59 am
Athetotheist wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 7:52 am
Conversator wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 7:39 am
Athetotheist wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 7:29 am Can you provide a link to the news story?
Want my address as well? Sheesh. Google vandalized synagogues and search through the tens of freaking thousands of vandalized synagogue news reports until you find it yourself. Yikes, This Christian website is cringe.
That's a severe overreaction to a perfectly reasonable request. Why should we have to slog through thousands of links to find one which you should easily be able to provide if this particular incident happened where you live?
Believe it, don't believe it. "slog through" Jewish misery or dismiss it altogether. Going to deny the holocaust next? As is done in the university I attend! This Christian website is cringe!

I think this exchange sums everything you present up nicely.

Its not about believng or not believing, its having the right to question and research. The background story is vastly out of step with avaiable evidence of Jehovah's Witnesses and vandelism and naturally raised questions. Anyway, as one of Jehovahs Witnesses myself, I have presented verifiable facts as to our position and I think it best we all leave your story were it has evidently landed.






JEHOVAHS WITNESS
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Re: JehovahsWitness and them 144,000

Post #22

Post by Athetotheist »

[Replying to benchwarmer in post #18
I'm simply saying that if we were able to remove one reason to have differences with each other, it would be one less reason to be violent.
I'm curious as to who would carry out the program. Seems that's been tried before by some revolutionary factions heavy into group-think----and violence----themselves.

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Re: JehovahsWitness and them 144,000

Post #23

Post by benchwarmer »

Athetotheist wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 5:23 pm [Replying to benchwarmer in post #18
I'm simply saying that if we were able to remove one reason to have differences with each other, it would be one less reason to be violent.
I'm curious as to who would carry out the program. Seems that's been tried before by some revolutionary factions heavy into group-think----and violence----themselves.
What program? Apparently I was not clear, I'm talking the natural dying off of religion, not some state mandated removal of it. Just like alchemy has more or less completely died off.

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Re: JehovahsWitness and them 144,000

Post #24

Post by Athetotheist »

benchwarmer wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:21 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 5:23 pm [Replying to benchwarmer in post #18
I'm simply saying that if we were able to remove one reason to have differences with each other, it would be one less reason to be violent.
I'm curious as to who would carry out the program. Seems that's been tried before by some revolutionary factions heavy into group-think----and violence----themselves.
What program? Apparently I was not clear, I'm talking the natural dying off of religion, not some state mandated removal of it. Just like alchemy has more or less completely died off.
Since it hasn't died off, maybe dying off isn't natural for it.

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Re: JehovahsWitness and them 144,000

Post #25

Post by Purple Knight »

JWs have to study and it's not just Heaven and Hell. Most good people go to Paradise.

They can be annoying if they're at your door but they're a strict sect and if they really did that and you want them punished, their own Elder will be the first to do it.

JWs also practice disfellowshipment. If their members are behaving immorally they can be kicked out.

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Re: JehovahsWitness and them 144,000

Post #26

Post by Shem Yoshi »

its a verse in Revelations 14 i believe, right after the verse talking about 666 and the mark of the beast, gives a verse about 144,000 in heaven...

The mark of the beast can be calculated to 6*6*6=216, and if we add that to 144 we get 360... Like the degrees of a circle. This is 5 points of a pentagram.

If we take a circle, and point 5 dots on its circumference equal distance apart and connect the dots we get a pentagram. Between each point makes 72 degrees, with 5 points and 5 areas. Pentagrams are usually associated with mystical properties, sometimes with the beast, sometimes a star of Solomon, or the orbit of Venus, or occult magic...

The three bottom areas of the pentagram calculate to 6*6*6 in degrees (72+72+72), while the two top areas equal 144 (72+72)... The Verse in Revelations is the end of Chapter 13 and the beginning of chapter 14 talking about these numbers. Of course the 144 is in thousands though (and also can be seen as 12*12=144, like the 12 apostles and the 12 elders at the base of the throne earlier in revelations).

I suspect Babylonian mathematics played a role, for "360 degrees in a circle" is theorized to come from Babylonian mathematics, but no one knows.

This also has to do with Kabbalah, the longest name of God according to Judaism Kabbalah has 72 names of 3 units long, total units in it is 6*6*6.. The "The 72-fold name" of the explicit names of God.. How they derived that name from scripture is still mystery to me, but they did it from 3 verses in Exodus.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shem_HaMephorash

And i was reading some stuff from Kaballa, which had an odd statement, it said the Computer is the Golden Calf of our age. A few days later i stumbled on another 216 number, it was "216 Web Safe Colors List", i think the original web had 216 colors or something.

"There were various attempts to make a "standard" color palette. A set of colors was needed that could be shown without dithering on 256-color displays; the number 216 was chosen partly because computer operating systems customarily reserved sixteen to twenty colors for their own use; it was also selected because it allows exactly six equally spaced shades of red, green, and blue (6 × 6 × 6 = 216), each from 00 to FF (including both limits)."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_colors

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Last edited by Shem Yoshi on Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: JehovahsWitness and them 144,000

Post #27

Post by brunumb »

Shem Yoshi wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:35 am The mark of the beast can be calculated to 6*6*6=216, and if we add that to 144 we get 360... Like the degrees of a circle. This is 5 points of a pentagram.
:? HUH? What is 5 points of a pentagram?

Look up who divided a circle into 360 degrees and why. If one starts off with certain numbers being 'special' for whatever reason, one can easily use mathematics to come up with any number of intriguing outcomes. If 12 is 'special' then clearly 144 can be made 'special' and later included in sacred texts to signify something else 'special'. It's all just a game.
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Re: JehovahsWitness and them 144,000

Post #28

Post by Shem Yoshi »

brunumb wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:19 am
Shem Yoshi wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:35 am The mark of the beast can be calculated to 6*6*6=216, and if we add that to 144 we get 360... Like the degrees of a circle. This is 5 points of a pentagram.
:? HUH? What is 5 points of a pentagram?

Look up who divided a circle into 360 degrees and why. If one starts off with certain numbers being 'special' for whatever reason, one can easily use mathematics to come up with any number of intriguing outcomes. If 12 is 'special' then clearly 144 can be made 'special' and later included in sacred texts to signify something else 'special'. It's all just a game.
No matter... There is still some kind of inspiration for the numbers in scripture.. Whether you believe it is inspiration of God or man, it was still inspired by something

This is the problem i see with skeptics a lot of the time, they dismiss scripture without trying to understand the inspiration of scripture...
brunumb wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:19 am :? HUH? What is 5 points of a pentagram?
You ought to draw it out if you are struggling with the numbers and geometry of it.
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Re: JehovahsWitness and them 144,000

Post #29

Post by Shem Yoshi »

Scripture talks about people being "carried in the spirit", it says that the prophets didnt know what they were prophesying, but they were carried in the spirit to do so. Or rather, it didnt originate from them, but they were carried in the spirit...

All this stuff i have stumbled upon, just being carried along in spirit.

The teaching of Christianity is that there is order in the universe.. And not just order in science, or laws of nature, but also in personal experience.

This is another fundamental concept that is dismissed in skepticism, all the while a nonbeliever admits order in nature (usually only to a degree, ultimately without God people usually admit that nature is of random accidents)... But truly there must be order... all of existence speaks of order.

(the longer version of my story has been me being carried in spirit... surely something is behind it... perhaps i dont fully understand anything, but surely soemthing is behind the events of my life.. )
viewtopic.php?t=40342
(more of my story, or prophecy and God)
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Re: JehovahsWitness and them 144,000

Post #30

Post by brunumb »

Shem Yoshi wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:26 am
brunumb wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:19 am
Shem Yoshi wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:35 am The mark of the beast can be calculated to 6*6*6=216, and if we add that to 144 we get 360... Like the degrees of a circle. This is 5 points of a pentagram.
:? HUH? What is 5 points of a pentagram?

Look up who divided a circle into 360 degrees and why. If one starts off with certain numbers being 'special' for whatever reason, one can easily use mathematics to come up with any number of intriguing outcomes. If 12 is 'special' then clearly 144 can be made 'special' and later included in sacred texts to signify something else 'special'. It's all just a game.
No matter... There is still some kind of inspiration for the numbers in scripture.. Whether you believe it is inspiration of God or man, it was still inspired by something
There's a huge difference between inspired by God and inspired by man. Your response just sweeps the whole thing under the rug.
Shem Yoshi wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:26 am This is the problem i see with skeptics a lot of the time, they dismiss scripture without trying to understand the inspiration of scripture...
When you can't distinguish between inspiration from scripture and made up by man, then it is quite understandable.
brunumb wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:19 am :? HUH? What is 5 points of a pentagram?
You ought to draw it out if you are struggling with the numbers and geometry of it.
[/quote]
There is nothing that points to a 5 coming from the data you supplied. Oh wait, was it through inspiration of some sort, or maybe just plucked out of the air? This is the problem I see with believers a lot of the time, they make stuff up or simply accept any unsupported claims as long as they fit in with preconceived ideas.
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Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
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