Experiencing God - (An Instructional How-to)

[POI]

I have been given (yet another) way to apparently experience God. (i.e. viewtopic.php?t=39327&start=360):

"I am asking if you are willing to do it now. Rosary for 9 days in a row. You are being offered the chance to experience God."

********************************

In another thread (viewtopic.php?t=40313), I ultimately explained how I was a devout believer for decades. And yet, I never felt I experienced any contact from God. For years/decades, I tried all sorts of methods. I asked others, and sure enough, many would give me their anecdotal accounts. Above, is just another example of a way in which people have given me, over the years, to possibly experience god. But fear not, as the instructions are usually fail-safe. Meaning, if it still does not work, and one is not deemed a liar for not really trying, then the answer MUST INSTEAD BE that it is not yet God's will for that one to experience god. This, of course, begs other questions...

For Debate:

1) I have been given a 9-day-challenge. I will probably pass on trying it myself. Why? I have already been given all sorts of methods, which apparently also worked for the individuals giving the instructions, but not for me.

What is MOST likely (A, B, C, D)?

A) God communicates with some and not others?
B) God communicates with no one, because there is no such god, and some are merely experiencing self deception?
C) God communicates with everyone, but some people don't notice?
D) God exists, but either never has, and/or no longer, communicates with anyone?

I'm going with B).

2) Is anyone down to take this 9-day-challenge and tell me how it goes?

[The Tanager]

Above looks to remain the crux of this thread. Here is where you and I diverge greatly. I may jump back in here and [edit] this response. But I would first like to let is marinate for a while

When you do, please be clearer about how/where we diverge.

[Shem Yoshi]

[Replying to POI in post #1]

Do you need God to "communicate" with you to have faith in him?

As I stated, many times now.... I asked for God's contact, for decades, and nothing. Imagine if someone or something provided the promise of "communication", and after about 10K times of trying to do so, for decades, and in every which way imaginable, you never got it... Would you remain as "faithful"? If so, why?

Faith is at the foundation of belief in God... I dont think God communicating with you ought to be the foundation of any relationship with God.

I would not disagree with you there; in that 'faith' is key. I'd say the Bible writers were clever enough to realize this topic of faith would need to be required to believe such a story line.

But you can apply faith to any claim. And once you give any reason(s) to apply the faith to this god, but not another god, you start abandoning the very topic you claim you possess --- which is faith itself;) Why? For the reason, which is becoming a broken record, in my response(s) to you. (i.e.) The more evidence you obtain, the less you need/require faith.

1. So I ask, yet again, why apply faith to this claim, and not any other god claim(s)?

2. Why should I continue in faith, after 30+ years of trying with no success? Isn't this suggesting insanity?

Faith in God is a Christian virtue. You will not find faith in God in any other religion apart from the faith of Abraham that led to "Salvation is by grace through faith" (Romans), it is a Christian virtue. People just barrow the concept to mean different things then what it actually means, but there is no other religion in which you put faith into for salvation... There is nowhere else that teaches that... You can not have faith in other gods, it is cheap talk that disregards the ideas of "faith" and disregards the concepts of all other religions, that do not teach faith in God.

If you disagree you can make your case here
viewtopic.php?t=40417

You did not really address my response. This seems to be becoming a common theme with you. I'll try again:

1. It's quite possible the Bible writers were clever enough to realize this entire belief system could not be substantiated, based upon evidence. Hence, they propped up "faith". Faith can be applied to ANY claim. So why not just apply faith to EVERY claim? Thus far, your only position seems to be that you view 'faith' as a virtue, based upon it saying so in the very book for which we are questioning. Your position could not be more circular. Thus, aside from the Bible telling you that you need faith, and also that faith is a virtue, why not apply faith to all god claims? Is it merely because their claims do not prop up the faith claim?

There is no faith in other claims... "why not apply faith to all god claims?" Because that would fundamentally misunderstand what faith is.

2. Why should I continue in faith, after 30+ years of trying to communicate with God, and no success? Isn't this suggesting insanity? Please remember, God apparently wants a relationship with me.

It certainly isnt insanity to have faith even when you dont understand. If belief in God was by your understanding, yet you are not all knowing, it would be impossible. It could be true that God speaks through ways you dont expect.

In fact, that must be true. What if God spoke to you, but not like you expected? It certainly begs the question, is it even possible for a human to expect God to do something, when they would never know what exactly God would do? Most surely God could always fulfill something, and do it in a way that you never expected. Not only could this happen, but surely this happens all the time, you would never know the exact nature of God being a human of limited understanding. God's fulfillment would ALWAYS be in a way we couldn't predict, for what can we know?

Like when Abraham reasoned by faith, he reasoned God could raise the dead, with the death of Isaac (Hebrew 11:17-19). But instead God stopped the death of Isaac, and THEN he even raised the dead.

What does man know? What can man, who is without knowledge, expect of God?

Faith surely must supersede above a humans limited knowing of God.

[brunumb]

What if God spoke to you, but not like you expected? It certainly begs the question, is it even possible for a human to expect God to do something, when they would never know what exactly God would do?

God would have to be a prize numpty if he spoke to you in a way that you did not hear or understand. Why bother? This is just another one of those ridiculous excuses for the failure of God to actually communicate with people. The most obvious reason is because there in no God there. Once one realises that, all the anomalies vanish into thin air.

[Shem Yoshi]

What if God spoke to you, but not like you expected? It certainly begs the question, is it even possible for a human to expect God to do something, when they would never know what exactly God would do?

God would have to be a prize numpty if he spoke to you in a way that you did not hear or understand. Why bother? This is just another one of those ridiculous excuses for the failure of God to actually communicate with people. The most obvious reason is because there in no God there. Once one realises that, all the anomalies vanish into thin air.

You successfully set up a man of straw and knocked it down.

[brunumb]

What if God spoke to you, but not like you expected? It certainly begs the question, is it even possible for a human to expect God to do something, when they would never know what exactly God would do?

God would have to be a prize numpty if he spoke to you in a way that you did not hear or understand. Why bother? This is just another one of those ridiculous excuses for the failure of God to actually communicate with people. The most obvious reason is because there in no God there. Once one realises that, all the anomalies vanish into thin air.

You successfully set up a man of straw and knocked it down.

Not really. What I see here is your inability to justify your position. Sweeping the problem under the carpet doesn't solve anything. If your God has chosen to speak to someone but they do not hear the omnipotent one, then the problem is obviously with God.

[Shem Yoshi]

What if God spoke to you, but not like you expected? It certainly begs the question, is it even possible for a human to expect God to do something, when they would never know what exactly God would do?

God would have to be a prize numpty if he spoke to you in a way that you did not hear or understand. Why bother? This is just another one of those ridiculous excuses for the failure of God to actually communicate with people. The most obvious reason is because there in no God there. Once one realises that, all the anomalies vanish into thin air.

You successfully set up a man of straw and knocked it down.

Not really. What I see here is your inability to justify your position. Sweeping the problem under the carpet doesn't solve anything. If your God has chosen to speak to someone but they do not hear the omnipotent one, then the problem is obviously with God.

Say what you will, it still remains impossible for a human to know what God will or will not do, by that humans understanding. If someone sought God to reveal himself to them, they would never know when God would do that, how he would communicate, what he would do... You would never know any of that. At best you could hope in good faith for God to reveal something you dont yet know.

There is no reason to loose faith in that.

[1213]

If you have read the Bible, then you have had the message. I don't see any reason to think it would make any difference, if God would tell it directly to you.

Which do you think is more compelling, your mother telling you that she loves you or a news reporter telling you that your mother loves you?

Obviously, nothing that reporters say can be trusted. But, I would not have anything against that message. I think Bible is about what is good and right. And I think that is not a matter of belief, but understanding. If one doesn't understand it now, there is no reason to think he would understand it, even if directly from God.

[brunumb]

What if God spoke to you, but not like you expected? It certainly begs the question, is it even possible for a human to expect God to do something, when they would never know what exactly God would do?

God would have to be a prize numpty if he spoke to you in a way that you did not hear or understand. Why bother? This is just another one of those ridiculous excuses for the failure of God to actually communicate with people. The most obvious reason is because there in no God there. Once one realises that, all the anomalies vanish into thin air.

You successfully set up a man of straw and knocked it down.

Not really. What I see here is your inability to justify your position. Sweeping the problem under the carpet doesn't solve anything. If your God has chosen to speak to someone but they do not hear the omnipotent one, then the problem is obviously with God.

Say what you will, it still remains impossible for a human to know what God will or will not do, by that humans understanding. If someone sought God to reveal himself to them, they would never know when God would do that, how he would communicate, what he would do... You would never know any of that. At best you could hope in good faith for God to reveal something you dont yet know.

There is no reason to loose faith in that.

[Lose, not loose]

You are talking about something different. It's not about knowing "what God will or will not do". Please read for understanding. If your God has chosen to speak to someone but they do not hear the omnipotent one, then the problem is obviously with God.

[brunumb]

If you have read the Bible, then you have had the message. I don't see any reason to think it would make any difference, if God would tell it directly to you.

Which do you think is more compelling, your mother telling you that she loves you or a news reporter telling you that your mother loves you?

Obviously, nothing that reporters say can be trusted. But, I would not have anything against that message. I think Bible is about what is good and right. And I think that is not a matter of belief, but understanding. If one doesn't understand it now, there is no reason to think he would understand it, even if directly from God.

If it came directly from God then it was his intention to communicate it to you. If you did not get the message from the omnipotent one, then he is obviously a failure at communication.

[Shem Yoshi]

What if God spoke to you, but not like you expected? It certainly begs the question, is it even possible for a human to expect God to do something, when they would never know what exactly God would do?

God would have to be a prize numpty if he spoke to you in a way that you did not hear or understand. Why bother? This is just another one of those ridiculous excuses for the failure of God to actually communicate with people. The most obvious reason is because there in no God there. Once one realises that, all the anomalies vanish into thin air.

You successfully set up a man of straw and knocked it down.

Not really. What I see here is your inability to justify your position. Sweeping the problem under the carpet doesn't solve anything. If your God has chosen to speak to someone but they do not hear the omnipotent one, then the problem is obviously with God.

Say what you will, it still remains impossible for a human to know what God will or will not do, by that humans understanding. If someone sought God to reveal himself to them, they would never know when God would do that, how he would communicate, what he would do... You would never know any of that. At best you could hope in good faith for God to reveal something you dont yet know.

There is no reason to loose faith in that.

[Lose, not loose]

You are talking about something different. It's not about knowing "what God will or will not do". Please read for understanding. If your God has chosen to speak to someone but they do not hear the omnipotent one, then the problem is obviously with God.

But hearing comes by Faith.