Questions about Jesus and JW’s

[MissKate13]

1. Jehovah’s Witnesses say Jesus was “a god.” This is how the NWT reads (John 1:1).

Do JW’s believe Jesus was a true or false god?

2. JW’s say Jesus is a created being.

When was Jesus (capital or lower case g) created?

I look forward to your responses to one or both questions.

MissKate13

[2timothy316]

We certainly do not have anything against Christ. We believe that he is the Son of the Most High, Jehovah, and he will soon rid the earth of all evil and rule over the earth for 1,000 years. He is actually the head of our world-wide 'church.' He guides us in everything we do for the Kingdom. How is that being against him?

That is what taught as part of the trinity doctrine. If one doesn't believe it then that person is against Christ. Anyone not for the trinity is an enemy, they are taught. These things are taught together so as to keep believers of the trinity from leaning what is true and keep them strongly entrenched in the doctrine. One mustn't forget, most that believe in the trinity are threatened with hellfire if they don't tow the doctrine line.

As Jehovah's Witnesses we have the honor of 'peering into the perfect law that belongs to freedom'. (Jas 1:25) Free of the hellfire doctrine and free from the false trinity doctrine.

[Difflugia]

The same way your image is the exact likeness of your face... but it's not your face ; it's a reflection of your face. If something is LIKE you, even if they are exactly like you, its still is not YOU. I'm not "like" me, I am me. By saying Jesus is exactly like God, it means he is not [Almighty] GOD himself....but he resembles that one.

I continue to be amazed at your attempts to understand the ineffable by merely quibbling over definition. You're basing your argument on unstated definitions of exact and like that apparently excludes some notion of being too exact as well as that a thing can be like itself. Depending on one's definition of exact and like, it could be argued that I am, in fact, the only thing that is exactly like me. If another can be distinguished from me, even by me, then it's not exactly like me.

The question, then, isn't how good your word games sound, but what Paul actually meant by εἰκὼν. In classic Greek, the word has meant the full range from a reflection, as you assert it must, to a divine appearance or projection in the sense of an avatar, which would imply the divine presence of the one true god. What's important is how Paul meant the classical Greek word εἰκὼν and not your own sloppy understanding of an inexact English translation.

Logic

Your argument is literally founded on the logical fallacy of equivocation. You're flattering yourself.

[LittleNipper]

John 1
New International Version
The Word Became Flesh
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Please note the following when comparing the NEW WORLDTRANSLATION of the Bible to any other translation: The NEW WORLD TRANSLATION committee of translation, had no known translators with recognized degrees in Greek or Hebrew exegesis or translation... None of the men involved had any university education except Fredrick W. Franz, who left school after two years, never completing even an undergraduate degree.

Regardless of who translated the text , The New World Translation 's rendition of John 1:1 is grammatically sound.

Feel free to attempt to prove otherwise.



JW


RELATED POST


How should John 1:1 properly be translated? [...and the word was God]
viewtopic.php?p=1111348#p1111348

And also, we can prove our point in other Bibles beside the NWT. It does no good for anyone to denigrate that version because it's lauded by Bible scholars who have no ax to grind, and its not the only version we refer to. We have proven that Jesus is not God from the King James Version, and we used it for 100 years before the NWT was available.

If you believe so. And since there is only one GOD, and JESUS is a GOD. Then JESUS CHRIST must be IT!

There is only one TRUE God, the God Almighty, YHWH, who is different from His Son (who has a different name). There are many "gods" that men worship---even Satan is a god. (2Corinthians 4:4). Judges (John 10:34-36), governors, kings are all called "gods" in the world then and even today. For example, fans of Eric Clapton say that he is a "god" because he can play the guitar so well. Paul said that people honored the "god" of their stomachs! (Philippians 3:19) So anything can be a "god." It is anything that a person puts before the true God. It also can refer to anyone who holds a high position and is mighty and revered, as Jesus Christ was in his day, by righteously inclined people.

I Corinthians 8: (4b)---"...there is no God but one. (5) For even though there are those who are called "gods," whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are MANY "gods" and many lords, (6) there is actually to US one God, the Father..."

So Jesus isn't it.

So even though there are many so-called "gods," there is only one TRUE God, the Father, according to the Scriptures.

What you fail to explain with regard to II Corinthians 4:4 is the portion that describes CHRIST. Let's visit this verse once again:
4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.

HOW can CHRIST be in the EXACT likeness of GOD and not be GOD? Note: Satan is described as the god of THIS WORLD, but is not portrayed as being in the exact likeness of GOD. I honestly don't understand what JW's have against CHRIST as they seem to hate anything that focuses on HIM, whether it is hymns, special holidays, or worship. CHRIST died for our sins. We owe CHRIST everything! Without CHRIST no one could be saved! And CHRIST is the KINGDOM! Where the king is, there is the kingdom. This is precisely why Jesus says to the Pharisees, “The kingdom of God is in the midst of you” (Luke 17:21). Jesus embodies the kingdom of God... Jesus is both the faithful ruler and the righteous citizen of the kingdom.

You have yourself shown that there are "gods" that are not the true God, Jehovah. You agree that Satan is a god. Further, an exact likeness does not mean that person is the person whom he resembles. Jesus reflected his Father, just like you might say of a twin---he is the exact likeness of his twin! That doesn't mean they are the same person, does it? A man might have a son that looks just like him. Is the son actually the father?

We certainly do not have anything against Christ. We believe that he is the Son of the Most High, Jehovah, and he will soon rid the earth of all evil and rule over the earth for 1,000 years. He is actually the head of our world-wide 'church.' He guides us in everything we do for the Kingdom. How is that being against him?

GOD is any being that can create a Universe and has an eternal existence from the past until the future... Satan does not fit that bill. Only the FATHER, the SON, and the HOLY SPIRIT are Biblically revealed to have the eternal, creative, and forgiving abilities. CHRIST is not the same person as the FATHER, but they are the same essence that we refer to as GOD, together with the HOLY SPIRIT. THEY are ONE GOD. I could have a son that looks just like me and possess my personality traits and abilities ----- yet you could not deny that my son is less human than I am. Likewise you cannot honestly deny that CHRIST is any less GOD than HIS FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT. CHRIST is GOD.

[Difflugia]

I could have a son that looks just like me and possess my personality traits and abilities ----- yet you could not deny that my son is less human than I am.

Presumably, both of your son's parents are human.

Likewise you cannot honestly deny that CHRIST is any less GOD than HIS FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT.

If one parent is human and one a god, the offspring is traditionally a demigod, like Hercules. They're the heroes of old, men of renown.

CHRIST is GOD.

Only if both of his parents were human. Otherwise, he was a demigod. A hero of old, a man of renown.

[LittleNipper]

I could have a son that looks just like me and possess my personality traits and abilities ----- yet you could not deny that my son is less human than I am.

Presumably, both of your son's parents are human.

Likewise you cannot honestly deny that CHRIST is any less GOD than HIS FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT.

If one parent is human and one a god, the offspring is traditionally a demigod, like Hercules. They're the heroes of old, men of renown.

CHRIST is GOD.

Only if both of his parents were human. Otherwise, he was a demigod. A hero of old, a man of renown.

"Demigod" is a term made up by pagans. But Jesus is not the product of sexual activity. CHRIST/MESSIAH preexisted before time began with the FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT and emptied HIMSELF and took on the form of a servant and was placed as a fetus inside of Mary by the HOLY SPIRIT. But all that aside, CHRIST was not the product of creation.

[2timothy316]

"Demigod" is a term made up by pagans.

Explain to us what a demigod is.

[LittleNipper]

"Demigod" is a term made up by pagans.

Explain to us what a demigod is.

I'm not a pagan. Ask a qualifying member of that community.

[2timothy316]

"Demigod" is a term made up by pagans.

Explain to us what a demigod is.

I'm not a pagan. Ask a qualifying member of that community.

So you don't know. Gottcha. This explains a lot.
Do you know what pagan means?

[LittleNipper]

"Demigod" is a term made up by pagans.

Explain to us what a demigod is.

I'm not a pagan. Ask a qualifying member of that community.

So you don't know. Gottcha. This explains a lot.
Do you know what pagan means?

Do you know what Christian means? By the way, I do not believe CHRISTMAS nor EASTER (Resurrection Sunday) to be pagan holidays.

[2timothy316]

"Demigod" is a term made up by pagans.

Explain to us what a demigod is.

I'm not a pagan. Ask a qualifying member of that community.

So you don't know. Gottcha. This explains a lot.
Do you know what pagan means?

Do you know what Christian means? By the way, I do not believe CHRISTMAS nor EASTER (Resurrection Sunday) to be pagan holidays.

Ah, by this reply you do not know what pagan means either. Along with your denial that Christmas and Easter are not pagan is useful information as to who you worship.

From the encyclopedia for the origin of Christmas.
"One widespread explanation of the origin of this date is that December 25 was the Christianizing of the dies solis invicti nati (“day of the birth of the unconquered sun”), a popular holiday in the Roman Empire that celebrated the winter solstice as a symbol of the resurgence of the sun, the casting away of winter and the heralding of the rebirth of spring and summer."

Enjoy your sun worshiping holiday I guess.

From the encyclopedia on Easter.
"The English word Easter, which parallels the German word Ostern, is of uncertain origin. One view, expounded by the Venerable Bede in the 8th century, was that it derived from Eostre, or Eostrae, the Anglo-Saxon goddess of spring and fertility."

Enjoy worshiping your fertility goddess I guess. Which if you understood the what a demigod was, then you'd know every Easter you're worshiping one.

As far as your question do I know what a Christian is, I do know and I know Christ would never go to a celebration for an Anglo-Saxon goddess of fertility. Since I do know what demigods are and what pagan means I know that a Christian shouldn't be worshiping these things because a Christian follows Christ and doesn't follow a fertility goddess.