Questions about Jesus and JW’s

[MissKate13]

1. Jehovah’s Witnesses say Jesus was “a god.” This is how the NWT reads (John 1:1).

Do JW’s believe Jesus was a true or false god?

2. JW’s say Jesus is a created being.

When was Jesus (capital or lower case g) created?

I look forward to your responses to one or both questions.

MissKate13

[JehovahsWitness]

GOD created the heavens and the earth .... in Hebrews is that Christ created and sustains the world. He is the Son “through whom [God] also created the worlds” (Heb. 1:2).

Hebrews doesnt say Christ created anything only that God [The Father ] created "through" Christ, so Jesus was merely the instrument by means of which God created. The words "Christ created" is nit in the text.

[JehovahsWitness]

GOD created the heavens and the earth .... in Hebrews is that Christ created and sustains the world. He is the Son “through whom [God] also created the worlds” (Heb. 1:2).

Hebrews doesn't say Christ created anything only that God [The Father ] created "through" Christ, so Jesus was merely the instrument by means of which God created. The words "Christ created" is NOT in the text.

[LittleNipper]

GOD created the heavens and the earth .... in Hebrews is that Christ created and sustains the world. He is the Son “through whom [God] also created the worlds” (Heb. 1:2).

Hebrews doesn't say Christ created anything only that God [The Father ] created "through" Christ, so Jesus was merely the instrument by means of which God created. The words "Christ created" is NOT in the text.

The problem is that only GOD has the ability to carry out the miracle of creation. To say that GOD worked "through" CHRIST means that GOD allowed CHRIST to do the work. The Jehovah Witness view seems to be that GOD told CHRIST what to do and then GOD took the credit for what CHRIST did. You do know that Edison didn't invent the electric bulb, he simply got the credit because he was in charge. But in the case of GOD, only GOD has the ability to CREATE a UNIVERSE. So, the fact of CHRIST being the one GOD the FATHER handed that job over to indicated that CHRIST the SON had the abilities.

[LittleNipper]

I'd like to ask any representative of the Jehovah Witnesses who do they say the 144,000 are. I feel that answer will help to prove the point regarding CHRIST and the TRINITY.

[JehovahsWitness]

.... only GOD has the ability to carry out the miracle of creation. ...

By "only God" , I take it you mean "only God the ALMIGHTY Father". So if you are saying that "only the Father (YHWH) has the ability to carry out the miracle of creation. <--- that is correct.

To say that GOD worked "through" CHRIST means that GOD allowed CHRIST to do the work. ...

Correct.

To illustrate: An architect conceives and designs a building. But does he necessarily mix the concrete, cut the trees for the wood and lay the bricks? Or does he let the bricklayers and the construction workers actually "do the work"? Even though many men must have "done the work" on the building, it is the designer not the construction workers that are credited as being its "creator" because they worked under the architects supervision and because without the architect the bulding could not exist.

In a similar way, God created but he let Jesus do the actual construction work.

Christ is never refered to as the Creator in scripture but he is referred to as "the masterworker".




JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

[LittleNipper]

.... only GOD has the ability to carry out the miracle of creation. ...

By "only God" , I take it you mean "only God the ALMIGHTY Father". So if you are saying that "only the Father (YHWH) has the ability to carry out the miracle of creation. <--- that is correct.

The problem here is that if only the FATHER has the ability to carry out creation, why did HE have the "MASTERWORKER" perform the task?

To say that GOD worked "through" CHRIST means that GOD allowed CHRIST to do the work. ...

Correct.

To illustrate: An architect conceives and designs a building. But does he necessarily mix the concrete, cut the trees for the wood and lay the bricks? Or does he let the bricklayers and the construction workers actually "do the work"? Even though many men must have "done the work" on the building, it is the designer not the construction workers that are credited as being its "creator" because they worked under the architects supervision and because without the architect the bulding could not exist.

In a similar way, God created but he let Jesus do the actual construction work.

Christ is never refered to as the Creator in scripture but he is referred to as "the masterworker".

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

It really seem that you are jumping through hoops in order to eliminate THE CHRIST as GOD the SON. YOU have insisted that GOD the FATHER is all there is, and yet JW's have no positive explanation for what THE GODHEAD is. There is nowhere in the Bible that states the the FATHER created HIS SON. It does say that CHRIST emptied HIMSELF to take on flesh. Emptied HIMSELF of what? Would it not seem that GOD the FATHER should have emptied CHRIST if CHRIST was but some created being? And why would GOD the FATHER even expect but another created being to save mankind? You say there is but ONE GOD. The TRINITY establishes ONE GOD, but ONE which is multifaceted and not one dimensional. It would seem very odd that CHRIST had to return to HIS FATHER so that the HOLY SPIRIT could then come into saved individuals as THE COMFORTER at Pentecost to remain here. And I know that JW's believe the HOLY SPIRIT to be but an "active force" of GOD and not a being.

And then you have not answered the question of who are the 144,000, because if your explanation of them is in error, how can JW's not have made other errors that are incorrect interpretations that they established to set themselves apart from CHRISTIANS and build their OWN religion.

[JehovahsWitness]

The problem here is that if only the FATHER has the ability to carry out creation, why did HE have the "MASTERWORKER" perform the task?

Naturally an omnipotent, all powerful God can do anything he chooses, indeed it would be totally unscriptural to suggest the Almighty FATHER used Jesus The son to create because He could not Create without help.

MATTHEW 19:26

With God all things are possible

The Father (YHWH) has his servants preach the good news as his "fellow workers", does that mean he is incapable of doing it alone? He sends his angels out with his messages; does that mean he can't delivrer a message himself ?The Father allowed Jesus to work for Him for the same reason he has any of us do things he can obviously do himself, because he knows it is a great privilege and source of joy for his creation to work for him.

PROVERBS 8:30

Then I was beside him as a master worker. I was the one he was especially fond of day by day I rejoiced before him all the time

[onewithhim]

[Replying to LittleNipper in post #625] So since JESUS can be both SON of GOD and Son of Man (the Bible clearly states this reality), it becomes obvious that JESUS can be both GOD and the SON at he same time. Please review the following: https://christianity.net.au/questions/h ... d_gods_son

We're talking about God and Jesus. You say that Jesus is God. How can he be his own Son? You haven't explained that successfully.

Because GOD is a GODHEAD (a plurality) made up of THREE BEINGS of which the one called THE FATHER is an eternal being. The one called the SON is an eternal being. And the one called the HOLY SPIRIT/COMFORTER is an eternal being. These three are ONE GOD. THEY are ONE and work together in unison for the same exact goal which is THEIR HONOR and GLORY with a shared LOVE of THEIR CREATION.

I'm sorry if this is incomprehensible to you, but that is as it should be to all who would deny the full LORDSHIP of CHRIST.

I do not deny the Lordship of Christ. I just don't believe he is God, and the Bible doesn't show that he is God. Please provide specific scriptures that show that he is God.

GOD created the heavens and the earth (and I know of nothing else so capable). Yet the SON also has this ability. Critical to the theology in Hebrews is that Christ created and sustains the world. He is the Son “through whom [God] also created the worlds” (Heb. 1:2).

Yes, God GAVE Jesus the ability to create everything. You said yourself that God created the world THROUGH Jesus. God gave him power and told him what to do.

"The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing. For whatever things that One does, these things the Son also does in like manner." (John 5:19)

[LittleNipper]

The problem here is that if only the FATHER has the ability to carry out creation, why did HE have the "MASTERWORKER" perform the task?

Naturally an omnipotent, all powerful God can do anything he chooses, indeed it would be totally unscriptural to suggest the Almighty FATHER used Jesus The son to create because He could not Create without help.

MATTHEW 19:26

With God all things are possible

The Father (YHWH) has his servants preach the good news as his "fellow workers", does that mean he is incapable of doing it alone? He sends his angels out with his messages; does that mean he can't delivrer a message himself ?The Father allowed Jesus to work for Him for the same reason he has any of us do things he can obviously do himself, because he knows it is a great privilege and source of joy for his creation to work for him.

PROVERBS 8:30

Then I was beside him as a master worker. I was the one he was especially fond of day by day I rejoiced before him all the time

Here is proof of the fact of JESUS being GOD in the flesh.
In the Old Testament, the use of "Lord" and "LORD" reflects the different ways the Hebrew name for God, YHWH (often pronounced as Yahweh), is translated.

"Lord" is used when the Hebrew text uses the word "Adonai," which is a title of respect and reverence for God. Yahweh: but when being read aloud the title Adonai ('My great Lord') was substituted out of reverence. When vowels were added to the Hebrew text, the vowels of Adonai were combined with YHWH to jog the reader's memory to use Adonai. (Hence the incorrect English hybrid 'Jehovah')

"LORD" in all capital letters is used in English translations to represent the Hebrew name YHWH. This practice originates from the tradition of substituting "YHWH" with "LORD" to avoid pronouncing the sacred name out of respect for its holiness. This tradition dates back to ancient Jewish practices and is continued in many English translations of the Old Testament.

The change from using "YHWH" to "LORD" in English translations took place gradually over time, as translators sought to maintain reverence for the sacred name while making the text accessible to English-speaking audiences.

This distinction helps readers recognize when the original Hebrew text uses the name YHWH, ensuring that the reverence for the sacred name is preserved in English translations. Below is a lesson in Hebrew from Messianic Jews that prove that JESUS is GOD!
https://www.hebrew4christians.com/Names ... donai.html

[onewithhim]

[Replying to LittleNipper in post #639]

Nothing proves that Jesus is God.