3 Facts and the Shroud of Turin

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JoeyKnothead
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3 Facts and the Shroud of Turin

Post #1

Post by JoeyKnothead »

For background: Shroud of Turin wiki.
Of course other sources may be preferred, that's just for the one person on the planet who ain't heard of it yet.

The debate:
The shroud of Turin is purported by some to be related directly to the burial / encavement of Jesus.

I propose that until the following three facts can be established, the shroud has not been shown to belong to Jesus...

1. No human / god hybrids have ever been shown to produce viable offspring.
2. The blood on the shroud has not been shown to belong to the human / god hybrid in question.
3. The image on the shroud has not been shown to belong to the hu,an / god hybrid in question.

For debate:
Do the three facts above do irreparable harm to claims that the shroud was ever draped over the biblical Jesus?
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Re: 3 Facts and the Shroud of Turin

Post #31

Post by boatsnguitars »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 12:31 pm ...
1. No human / god hybrids have ever been shown to produce viable offspring.
....
Yes, it is proven that Demi-Gods are like mules; infertile. This is a basic fact.
That, and Yeti's don't smell as bad as Sasquatches.
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
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Re: 3 Facts and the Shroud of Turin

Post #32

Post by Clownboat »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Fri Feb 10, 2023 1:23 pm I don't understand why this line of inquiry is so problematic, and I ain't trying to be disruptive, so I'm gonna hafta bow out of the discussion before I get into more trouble than I'm already in.

Y'all be good.
Now this is how to be a good human! You are an inspiration! Good on you for taking the high road. You have been silenced, which is a shame, but not for good (though threatend with it).

1. No human / god hybrids have ever been shown to produce viable offspring.
This claim of yours, is a fact.

2. The blood on the shroud has not been shown to belong to the human / god hybrid in question.
This claim of yours, is a fact.

3. The image on the shroud has not been shown to belong to the human / god hybrid in question.
This claim of yours is a fact.

I contend that to consider these facts to be merly claims is to ignore the meaning of the word fact and just a way to silence your claimed facts that are obviously uncomfortable to some.
(Evidence from this thread: These are not "facts", these are "claims")
I claim that it is a fact that the earth is an oblate spheroid. Why on earth would anyone take issue with such a thing? Claims can be factual obviously.

To the OP question directly: Do the three facts above do irreparable harm...
No, not irreparable harm as the supernatural is always an option to fall back on if the goal is to justify a belief.

Please continue to stay out of this thread though as losing your voice here would truly be a loss.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

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If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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Re: 3 Facts and the Shroud of Turin

Post #33

Post by AquinasForGod »

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #1]

I recommend watching

Although it will probably not convince you as it hasn't fully convinced me, it will inform you properly on the topic, which you are not.

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Re: 3 Facts and the Shroud of Turin

Post #34

Post by otseng »

Clownboat wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 12:45 pm You have been silenced, which is a shame, but not for good (though threatend with it).
He has been "silenced" for violating the rules. He is not being treated any differently than any other forum member.
I contend that to consider these facts to be merly claims is to ignore the meaning of the word fact and just a way to silence your claimed facts that are obviously uncomfortable to some.
Do you accept these claims/facts to be a rational refutation of the authenticity of the TS?

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Re: 3 Facts and the Shroud of Turin

Post #35

Post by Clownboat »

otseng wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 5:13 pm He has been "silenced" for violating the rules. He is not being treated any differently than any other forum member.
You're the boss, but little ol me didn't witness any violations here in this thread where I was referring to the silencing happening.
(Seems as though the violations happened elsewhere, but are being enforced here to the point that the person in question is not comfortable remaining in this thread).
Do you accept these claims/facts to be a rational refutation of the authenticity of the TS?
The TS has not been shown to be authentic.
Must I refute the existence of Bigfoot next?

Do you find both of these statements to be reasonable?:
- Bigfoots (sasquatches) have never been shown to exist or be authentic. Now please refute their existence.
- Human/God hybrids have never been shown to exist or be authentic. Now please refute their existence.

If human/god hybrids are not known to be a thing, why would a person be justified in claiming that they are an explanation for a thing like the Turin Shroud? Would that not be like someone claiming that Sasquatches are going through their garbages at night? Would you think such an explanation even needs to be refuted, just because it has been offered?
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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Re: 3 Facts and the Shroud of Turin

Post #36

Post by otseng »

Clownboat wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:54 am You're the boss, but little ol me didn't witness any violations here in this thread where I was referring to the silencing happening.
(Seems as though the violations happened elsewhere, but are being enforced here to the point that the person in question is not comfortable remaining in this thread).
Yes, it was in a separate thread that this thread is based on. Here was the warning below:
Bust Nak wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:44 am
JoeyKnothead wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 7:32 am Unfortunately, I was warned of sanctions for trying to discuss some of the facts surrounding the shroud. All I feel safe replying here is...
:warning: Moderator Warning
Quit it. Posting the same thing over and over again goes beyond mere discussions. It's not safe to push the boundary.
viewtopic.php?p=1111332#p1111332

As for silencing in this thread, I've never said anything to prevent Joey from posting here except to simply follow the rules. If he follows the rules, by all means he can post here.
Do you accept these claims/facts to be a rational refutation of the authenticity of the TS?
The TS has not been shown to be authentic.
I'm expecting a simple yes or no to my question.

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Re: 3 Facts and the Shroud of Turin

Post #37

Post by JoeyKnothead »

I said I'd leave this be, but I think the following can clear some things up...

First, I absolutely reject strawman arguments, from me or anybody.

It's my firm conviction that Jesus, by virtue of the virgin birth, his supernatural abilities, and various other notions, can, or should be considered the literal son of god, even as the Christian notion "Son of God" is differently understood.

That said, my brief looking into it just now indicates the vast majority (all?) of Christian doctrine / belief basically rejects my position regarding Christian claims in this matter. With this in mind, and seeing the disruption my view and terminology causes, I don't see a productive argument being had about this.

After all, there's plenty of goofy claims to go after without kicking up a fuss on this deal :wave:
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin

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