Another problem with Jesus being God

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Athetotheist
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Another problem with Jesus being God

Post #1

Post by Athetotheist »

It's often claimed that Jesus was 100% God and 100% human. There are numerous difficulties with this assertion and here, I believe, is another one.

Jesus had a physical body which, if he was 100% human, must have been a 100% human body. Human bodies are composed of the materials they take in from the environment; in other words, human bodies are made up of components of the natural world----and Christianity vehemently distinguishes between the natural world and God. Thus, for Jesus to have been 100% God, the material of the natural world which made up his physical body would have to have been 100% God, making the natural world----and presumably the rest of the universe----pantheistic (the problem, of course, is that this would make the rest of us 100% God as well).

If Jesus was 100% God but his physical body----made of components of a natural world distinct from God----wasn't, then his physical body couldn't have been an actual part of him. But if his physical body wasn't part of him, how could he be 100% human?

It seems that there are three possibilities:

1. The material from the natural world which made up Jesus's physical body was 100% God because the universe is pantheistic,

2. Jesus was 100% God but his physical body wasn't part of him, meaning that he wasn't 100% human....

or....

3. Jesus was 100% human and wasn't God.

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Re: Another problem with Jesus being God

Post #11

Post by Athetotheist »

WebersHome wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 9:01 am
Athetotheist wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:36 amSo the Word is more than one being?
As near as I can tell: yes-- the one person natural and the other supernatural; and yet the two are a unity, joined at the hip so to speak.

I wish I could better explain the association between the Word and the flesh that the Word became, but I can't even explain how God created the entire cosmos-- all its forms of life, matter, and energy --ex nihilo; from nothing.
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I can't explain how God created the cosmos either, but I think the evidence makes Jesus being 100% human and not God most likely.

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Re: Another problem with Jesus being God

Post #12

Post by WebersHome »

Athetotheist wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 10:38 amI think the evidence makes Jesus being 100% human and not God most likely.

In order for Jesus to be 100% human, he would need to be biologically related to Adam; which of course he is and that's very easy to prove, yet quite a few Christians refuse to accept his genealogy goes back that far primarily because it implies he was a creature of design; but it looks to me that Heb 10:5 agrees.

NOTE: Jesus' genealogy can be traced to David via Acts 2:29-30 and Rom 1:3. Well, if David was biologically related to Adam, then so was Jesus: no getting out of it
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Re: Another problem with Jesus being God

Post #13

Post by Athetotheist »

[Replying to WebersHome in post #12
Jesus' genealogy can be traced to David via Acts 2:29-30 and Rom 1:3. Well, if David was biologically related to Adam, then so was Jesus: no getting out of it
......especially if Jesus had a biological father.

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Re: Another problem with Jesus being God

Post #14

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Athetotheist wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 12:50 pm
especially if Jesus had a biological father

He wouldn't need a direct biological father if his mom was in any way biologically related to Eve seeing as how the first woman's entire body-- front to back, side to side, top to bottom, inside and outside --was constructed with material taken from Adam's body. So if any part of Mary's body was used in Jesus' conception, then he would be just as much biologically related to Eve as his mom: and if Eve, then of course Adam.
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Re: Another problem with Jesus being God

Post #15

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Athetotheist wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:51 am [Replying to Miles in post #7
So what? I bet almost every person in the world would vehemently distinguish between being American and being male. Wouldn't you?
You're employing a weak analogy. "American" and "male" are not mutually exclusive,
And isn't this just what I said in my very first post, "I know I can be 100% male and 100% American because they are not mutually exclusive characteristics."

while Romans 1:25 draws a clear distinction between creature and creator.
First of all, not all Bibles use the term "creature" in the verse. In fact, 42% of them do not, and of these most phrase Romans 1:25 something like:

Romans 1:25 TLB
"Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they prayed to the things God made, but wouldn’t obey the blessed God who made these things."

Secondly, I assume you consider the "creature"mentioned to be Jesus Christ. Why? Has Jesus ever been referred to as a "the creature" elsewhere in the Bible?

"Romans 1:25
25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen."

And just what is the significance in being human and being a god, and being human and being a specific god?
The significance is that Abrahamic theology holds that there is only one God.
And just how does this affect what I said, which was: "If one can be any god why can't they be a specific god?" The specific god being the Abrahamic god? What is it about the Abrahamic god that makes it incompatible with being Jesus? And I'll need scripture here, not mere speculation or imagination.

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Re: Another problem with Jesus being God

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Post by Miles »

Posted to reinsert thread into TOPICS.
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Re: Another problem with Jesus being God

Post #17

Post by Athetotheist »

[Replying to Miles in post #15
And isn't this just what I said in my very first post, "I know I can be 100% male and 100% American because they are not mutually exclusive characteristics."
But being 100% human and being 100% God are mutually exclusive----unless the universe is pantheistic.
"Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they prayed to the things God made, but wouldn’t obey the blessed God who made these things."
That's just more to my point. Jesus's physical body would have been made up of things God made, and in Abrahamic theology, things God made are not God.
And just how does this affect what I said, which was: "If one can be any god why can't they be a specific god?" The specific god being the Abrahamic god? What is it about the Abrahamic god that makes it incompatible with being Jesus? And I'll need scripture here, not mere speculation or imagination.
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither a son of man, that he should repent (Numbers 23:19)

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Re: Another problem with Jesus being God

Post #18

Post by Athetotheist »

WebersHome wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 2:11 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 12:50 pm
especially if Jesus had a biological father

He wouldn't need a direct biological father if his mom was in any way biologically related to Eve seeing as how the first woman's entire body-- front to back, side to side, top to bottom, inside and outside --was constructed with material taken from Adam's body. So if any part of Mary's body was used in Jesus' conception, then he would be just as much biologically related to Eve as his mom: and if Eve, then of course Adam.
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And if Jesus's physical body was made from Mary's physical body, Jesus's body would have been made of the same components of the natural world that Mary's body was made of----even the dust of the ground which made up Adam's body----none of which was God, unless the universe is pantheistic.

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Re: Another problem with Jesus being God

Post #19

Post by Miles »

Athetotheist wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 4:13 pm [Replying to Miles in post #15
And isn't this just what I said in my very first post, "I know I can be 100% male and 100% American because they are not mutually exclusive characteristics."
But being 100% human and being 100% God are mutually exclusive
Sorry, but your say-so isn't enough evidence, show us where the Bible says this is so. Besides your Bible already says it is possible. Simply look up John 10:30 or post #3 here.

"Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they prayed to the things God made, but wouldn’t obey the blessed God who made these things."
That's just more to my point. Jesus's physical body would have been made up of things God made, and in Abrahamic theology, things God made are not God.
In the face of John 10:30 I know you wouldn't make up such a thing, so just cite the verses that says god could not have made Jesus one with himself. In essence, god is not omnipotent.

And just how does this affect what I said, which was: "If one can be any god why can't they be a specific god?" The specific god being the Abrahamic god? What is it about the Abrahamic god that makes it incompatible with being Jesus? And I'll need scripture here, not mere speculation or imagination.
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither a son of man, that he should repent (Numbers 23:19)
But everyone knows god repented some of what he did, and several times no less!

Genesis 6:6 (KJ21)
And the Lord repented that He had made man on the earth, and it grieved Him in His heart.

1 Samuel 15:35 (KJ21)
And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death. Nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul; and the Lord repented that He had made Saul king over Israel.

Jeremiah 42:10 (GNV)
If ye will dwell in this land, then I will build you, and not destroy you, and I will plant you, and not root you out: for I repent me of the evil that I have done unto you.

Amos 7:1-3
(KJ21)
The Lord God showed me this: He was forming a swarm of locusts at the time the spring crop first began to sprout—after the cutting of the king’s hay.
2And it came to pass, when they had made an end of eating the grass of the land, then I said, “O Lord God, forgive, I beseech Thee! By whom shall Jacob arise? For he is small.”
3The Lord repented concerning this. “It shall not be,” saith the Lord.

Amos 7:6
(KJ21)
The Lord repented concerning this. “This also shall not be,” saith the Lord God.

Exodus 32:14 (KJV)
And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Jonah 3:10 (GNV)
And God saw their works that they turned from their evil ways: and God repented of the evil that he had said that he would do unto them, and he did it not.

In short, God does make mistakes. He is not perfect, as is sometimes claimed.


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Re: Another problem with Jesus being God

Post #20

Post by WebersHome »

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Athetotheist wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 4:19 pmAnd if Jesus' physical body was made from Mary's physical body, Jesus's body would have been made of the same components of the natural world that Mary's body was made of----even the dust of the ground which made up Adam's body----none of which was God
I think it would be a very good idea if Sunday school teachers would first show their classes how the Word's flesh is an honest to gosh, bona fides, human being descended from David and Adam before saying even one word about its status as a deity. Then maybe Christians would end their silly mantra that Jesus is fully God and fully Man and instead start a new mantra saying the Word is fully God and fully Man because that would fit very nicely with John 1:1-3, John 1:14, and Phil 2:6-11.
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