It's often claimed that Jesus was 100% God and 100% human. There are numerous difficulties with this assertion and here, I believe, is another one.
Jesus had a physical body which, if he was 100% human, must have been a 100% human body. Human bodies are composed of the materials they take in from the environment; in other words, human bodies are made up of components of the natural world----and Christianity vehemently distinguishes between the natural world and God. Thus, for Jesus to have been 100% God, the material of the natural world which made up his physical body would have to have been 100% God, making the natural world----and presumably the rest of the universe----pantheistic (the problem, of course, is that this would make the rest of us 100% God as well).
If Jesus was 100% God but his physical body----made of components of a natural world distinct from God----wasn't, then his physical body couldn't have been an actual part of him. But if his physical body wasn't part of him, how could he be 100% human?
It seems that there are three possibilities:
1. The material from the natural world which made up Jesus's physical body was 100% God because the universe is pantheistic,
2. Jesus was 100% God but his physical body wasn't part of him, meaning that he wasn't 100% human....
or....
3. Jesus was 100% human and wasn't God.
Another problem with Jesus being God
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Athetotheist
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Re: Another problem with Jesus being God
Post #2.
In my experience, a very large number of Christians have lost sight of the Word revealed by John 1:1-3 and instead focus their attention upon the flesh by which the Word came into the world per John 1:14.
In other words: the correct description is that the Word, rather than Jesus, exists simultaneously as an eternal spirit being whose origin is currently unknown, and a temporal material being whose origin is Adam and the dust with which Adam was created, viz: Jesus is a creature of design, whereas the Word is the designer who brought Jesus into human existence.
However, the world is required to regard Jesus as God because according to Phil 2:6-11, he has been endowed with the privilege to use the name that's above every name for his own personal identification. That name is Jehovah, a.k.a. Yahweh-- there is none higher.
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Athetotheist wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 8:26 pmIt's often claimed that Jesus was 100% God and 100% human.
In my experience, a very large number of Christians have lost sight of the Word revealed by John 1:1-3 and instead focus their attention upon the flesh by which the Word came into the world per John 1:14.
In other words: the correct description is that the Word, rather than Jesus, exists simultaneously as an eternal spirit being whose origin is currently unknown, and a temporal material being whose origin is Adam and the dust with which Adam was created, viz: Jesus is a creature of design, whereas the Word is the designer who brought Jesus into human existence.
However, the world is required to regard Jesus as God because according to Phil 2:6-11, he has been endowed with the privilege to use the name that's above every name for his own personal identification. That name is Jehovah, a.k.a. Yahweh-- there is none higher.
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Miles
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Re: Another problem with Jesus being God
Post #3.
Considering that:
and
How could
Not be true?
In any case, why can't someone be 100% A and still be 100% B? I know I can be 100% male and 100% American because they are not mutually exclusive characteristics. But evidently you feel being human and being a god are. Why? I know that humans are natural entities and have been told that gods are SUPERnatural entities, but from what you say evidently they are mutually exclusive; an entity cannot have both a physical nature and a spiritual nature. But why? What is it you know about each that precludes them from existing together in the same being? And keep in mind that neither persona need be identical to the other, i.e. the god persona need not have a penis and the human persona need not be omniscient.
Why can't the Father and I be One? Certainly enough different Bibles say they are.
.
Considering that:
2 Timothy 3:16-17
"All Scripture is given by God. And all Scripture is useful for teaching and for showing people what is wrong in their lives. "
"All Scripture is given by God. And all Scripture is useful for teaching and for showing people what is wrong in their lives. "
and
Proverbs 30:5-6
"Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar. "
"Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar. "
How could
John 10:30
KJ21
I and My Father are one.”
ASV
I and the Father are one.
AMP
I and the Father are One [in essence and nature].”
AMPC
I and the Father are One.
BRG
I and my Father are one.
CSB
I and the Father are one.”
CEB
I and the Father are one.”
CJB
I and the Father are one.”
CEV
and I am one with the Father.
DARBY
I and the Father are one.
DLNT
I and the Father are one”.
DRA
I and the Father are one.
ERV
The Father and I are one.”
EHV
I and the Father are one.”
ESV
I and the Father are one.”
ESVUK
I and the Father are one.”
EXB
The Father and I are one.”
GNV
I and my Father are one.
GW
The Father and I are one.”
GNT
The Father and I are one.”
HCSB
The Father and I are one.”
ICB
The Father and I are one.”
ISV
I and the Father are one.”
JUB
I and my Father are one.
KJV
I and my Father are one.
AKJV
I and my Father are one.
LSB
I and the Father are one.”
LEB
The Father and I are one.”
TLB
I and the Father are one.”
MEV
My Father and I are one.”
MOUNCE
I and the Father are one.”
NOG
The Father and I are one.”
NABRE
The Father and I are one.”
NASB
I and the Father are one.”
NASB1995
I and the Father are one.”
NCB
I and the Father are one.”
NCV
The Father and I are one.”
NET
The Father and I are one.”
NIRV
I and the Father are one.”
NIV
I and the Father are one.”
NIVUK
I and the Father are one.’
NKJV
I and My Father are one.”
NLV
My Father and I are one!”
NLT
The Father and I are one.”
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.
KJ21
I and My Father are one.”
ASV
I and the Father are one.
AMP
I and the Father are One [in essence and nature].”
AMPC
I and the Father are One.
BRG
I and my Father are one.
CSB
I and the Father are one.”
CEB
I and the Father are one.”
CJB
I and the Father are one.”
CEV
and I am one with the Father.
DARBY
I and the Father are one.
DLNT
I and the Father are one”.
DRA
I and the Father are one.
ERV
The Father and I are one.”
EHV
I and the Father are one.”
ESV
I and the Father are one.”
ESVUK
I and the Father are one.”
EXB
The Father and I are one.”
GNV
I and my Father are one.
GW
The Father and I are one.”
GNT
The Father and I are one.”
HCSB
The Father and I are one.”
ICB
The Father and I are one.”
ISV
I and the Father are one.”
JUB
I and my Father are one.
KJV
I and my Father are one.
AKJV
I and my Father are one.
LSB
I and the Father are one.”
LEB
The Father and I are one.”
TLB
I and the Father are one.”
MEV
My Father and I are one.”
MOUNCE
I and the Father are one.”
NOG
The Father and I are one.”
NABRE
The Father and I are one.”
NASB
I and the Father are one.”
NASB1995
I and the Father are one.”
NCB
I and the Father are one.”
NCV
The Father and I are one.”
NET
The Father and I are one.”
NIRV
I and the Father are one.”
NIV
I and the Father are one.”
NIVUK
I and the Father are one.’
NKJV
I and My Father are one.”
NLV
My Father and I are one!”
NLT
The Father and I are one.”
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.
Not be true?
In any case, why can't someone be 100% A and still be 100% B? I know I can be 100% male and 100% American because they are not mutually exclusive characteristics. But evidently you feel being human and being a god are. Why? I know that humans are natural entities and have been told that gods are SUPERnatural entities, but from what you say evidently they are mutually exclusive; an entity cannot have both a physical nature and a spiritual nature. But why? What is it you know about each that precludes them from existing together in the same being? And keep in mind that neither persona need be identical to the other, i.e. the god persona need not have a penis and the human persona need not be omniscient.
Why can't the Father and I be One? Certainly enough different Bibles say they are.
.
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Athetotheist
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Re: Another problem with Jesus being God
Post #4[Replying to WebersHome in post #2
So, putting Jesus aside, the Word is both a spirit being and composed of elements of the physical world? How does that work?In other words: the correct description is that the Word, rather than Jesus, exists simultaneously as an eternal spirit being whose origin is currently unknown, and a temporal material being whose origin is Adam and the dust with which Adam was created, viz: Jesus is a creature of design, whereas the Word is the designer who brought Jesus into human existence.
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Athetotheist
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Re: Another problem with Jesus being God
Post #5[Replying to Miles in post #3
Remember what I mentioned about Christianity vehemently distinguishing between the natural world and God? This isn't about being human and being "a god"; it's about being human and being the Christian god.In any case, why can't someone be 100% A and still be 100% B? I know I can be 100% male and 100% American because they are not mutually exclusive characteristics. But evidently you feel being human and being a god are. Why?
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WebersHome
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Re: Another problem with Jesus being God
Post #6.
I think what you've described is a demigod; which is a singularity that's half human and half divine.
The Word is a plurality, viz: his humanity and his divinity are two separate and distinct individuals, each with an identity of their own.
I have no clue how someone can exist as two ordinary persons simultaneously let alone two very different kinds of persons; the one natural and the other supernatural.
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Athetotheist wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 11:05 pmSo . . . . the Word is both a spirit being and composed of elements of the physical world? How does that work?
I think what you've described is a demigod; which is a singularity that's half human and half divine.
The Word is a plurality, viz: his humanity and his divinity are two separate and distinct individuals, each with an identity of their own.
I have no clue how someone can exist as two ordinary persons simultaneously let alone two very different kinds of persons; the one natural and the other supernatural.
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Last edited by WebersHome on Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Miles
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Re: Another problem with Jesus being God
Post #7So what? I bet almost every person in the world would vehemently distinguish between being American and being male. Wouldn't you? Yet . . . . And just what is the significance in being human and being a god, and being human and being a specific god? If one can be any god why can't they be a specific god? Do you know something about being any god that precludes one from being a specific god, that we don't know? You must, so how about sharing?Athetotheist wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 11:13 pm [Replying to Miles in post #3
Remember what I mentioned about Christianity vehemently distinguishing between the natural world and God? This isn't about being human and being "a god"; it's about being human and being the Christian god.In any case, why can't someone be 100% A and still be 100% B? I know I can be 100% male and 100% American because they are not mutually exclusive characteristics. But evidently you feel being human and being a god are. Why?
.
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Athetotheist
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Re: Another problem with Jesus being God
Post #8[Replying to WebersHome in post #6
So the Word is more than one being?The Word is a plurality, viz: his humanity and his divinity are two separate and distinct individuals, each with an identity of their own.
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Athetotheist
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Re: Another problem with Jesus being God
Post #9[Replying to Miles in post #7
You're employing a weak analogy. "American" and "male" are not mutually exclusive, while Romans 1:25 draws a clear distinction between creature and creator.So what? I bet almost every person in the world would vehemently distinguish between being American and being male. Wouldn't you?
The significance is that Abrahamic theology holds that there is only one God.And just what is the significance in being human and being a god, and being human and being a specific god?
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WebersHome
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Re: Another problem with Jesus being God
Post #10As near as I can tell: yes-- the one person natural and the other supernatural; and yet the two are a unity, joined at the hip so to speak.
I wish I could better explain the association between the Word and the flesh that the Word became, but I can't even explain how God created the entire cosmos-- all its forms of life, matter, and energy --ex nihilo; from nothing.
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