JUSTIFICATION BY WORKS & NO JUSTIFICATION BY WORKS

[Eddie Ramos]

Justification (salvation) by works is indeed a true biblical doctrine.

James 2:20–26 (KJV (WS))
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

No justification (no salvation) by works is also a true biblical doctrine.

Galatians 2:16 (KJV (WS))
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


So, then what's the problem here?

[Eloi]

In the Scriptures it is more than clear, the fact that to win God's approval it is required to perform works that he demands and to stop practicing things that displease him.

When Paul speaks of works that are not required of Christians, he is referring to works that are done in order to fulfill the law of Moses, since Christians do not have to be subject to that law. On the other hand, Paul also says under inspiration:

1 Cor. 6:9 Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom.

We read from Jesus himself:

Rev. 21:8 But as for the cowards and those without faith and those who are disgusting in their filth and murderers and the sexually immoral and those practicing spiritism and idolaters and all the liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This means the second death.”

It is evident that if the person has not works there is not any justification. Some people don't even want to do any effort at all... and they believe they will be saved by practicing those very things that God explicitly condemns.

[Eddie Ramos]

In the Scriptures it is more than clear, the fact that to win God's approval it is required to perform works that he demands and to stop practicing things that displease him.

When Paul speaks of works that are not required of Christians, he is referring to works that are done in order to fulfill the law of Moses, since Christians do not have to be subject to that law. On the other hand, Paul also says under inspiration:

1 Cor. 6:9 Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom.

We read from Jesus himself:

Rev. 21:8 But as for the cowards and those without faith and those who are disgusting in their filth and murderers and the sexually immoral and those practicing spiritism and idolaters and all the liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This means the second death.”

It is evident that if the person has not works there is not any justification. Some people don't even want to do any effort at all... and they believe they will be saved by practicing those very things that God explicitly condemns.

Thanks for your reply, but what you are referring to, in your opening sentence, is to the fact that earthly blessings would abound as a result of the obedience of the people to God's laws. But earthly blessings have nothing to do with the eternal blessing of salvation.

John 6:63 (KJV (WS))
It is the spirit that quickeneth (makes alive); the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

In other words, salvation is the resurrection of our dead soul. When this took place in the life of one of God's elect, then that born again perfect soul was still living in a sin cursed body. The flesh profited nothing from our salvation. Not until the last day.

This is why our physical obedience of God's commandments (our works of righteousness) never brought about salvation and certainly never caught God's attention to save us. Here is what God thinks of the righteous works of the unsaved:

Isaiah 64:6 (KJV (WS))
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Now, regarding the 2 passages you quoted, these sins are describing those who are not saved. God is listing these sins to describe the desperately wicked condition of mankind. How can we be sure? Because God after God lists those awful sins and says that those who commit those sins will not inherit the kingdom of God, he then says to some of those same people who were committing those awful sins, that they have now become washed (saved).

1 Corinthians 6:9–11 (KJV (WS))
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

In other words, all of these sins listed are being used to identify "the unrighteous" which will never enter the kingdom of God. It doesn't mean that if a true child of God commits any of those sins listed (which if he commits one, he commits all of them)
that he will become unsaved. We can look at David as just one example. We know that David was a true child of God and yet committed a number of horrible sins. As a matter of fact, he committed many of the sins described in the 2 passages you posted, yet when God sent Nathan to confront David, he told him that his sin was forgiven. Yet earthly consequences came.

This was not written for us to give ourselves liberty to sin, but to show us what true salvation looks like and that it can never be lost, no matter how many times we fall short, and we fall short continually.

Ecclesiastes 7:20 (KJV (WS))
For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

James 2:10 (KJV (WS))
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #3]
People don't seem to understand that Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in a totally works-based salvation. We believe that one must accept Christ and what he has done for us, and THEN perform works that are in line with his teachings. They go hand-in-hand: Belief and works. Just one of them isn't enough. "Faith without works is dead." (James 2:26)

[2timothy316]

The problem with this thread is that nowhere in the Bible does it say "justification by works".

[Eddie Ramos]

The problem with this thread is that nowhere in the Bible does it say "justification by works".

Then please re-read the thread because you missed where the Bible says it in the book of James.

[Eddie Ramos]

[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #3]
People don't seem to understand that Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in a totally works-based salvation. We believe that one must accept Christ and what he has done for us, and THEN perform works that are in line with his teachings. They go hand-in-hand: Belief and works. Just one of them isn't enough. "Faith without works is dead." (James 2:26)

I don't know all that J.W.'s believe, but it's actually irrelevant what any religion believes on this or any subject, because they all differ from one another. So, I just want you to know that my thread was not aimed at J.W.'s, but at harmonizing both truths that seems very contradictory (but are not). But since you mentioned what you believe in as a J.W., I would be more than happy to comment on it. When you say "accept" Christ, I assume you mean "believe" in him because no scripture tells us to "accept" him. So, you believe that salvation comes first, then obedience to his commandments? (the works). If so, the passages I quoted in my O.P. present 2 problems for your doctrine of faith and works.

Galatians 2:16 (KJV (WS))
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

When someone who doesn't believe in works of righteousness unto salvation, they say that the only thing they did to become saved is to believe in Jesus Christ. But, what they don't realize, is that what they're actually saying is that they became saved by doing a work of righteousness. Why is that? Because to believe in Jesus Christ is a commandment of God. And anytime we obey any commandment of God, we are doing a work. Furthermore, what's worse, is when someone places their trust in that work they have done to become saved, they have actually deceived themselves into thinking that they are born again.

The second problem is that James tells us that faith alone without works cannot save because faith is dead being alone. So, this is what causes so much confusion, because one passage says that no one is justified by works (by keeping the law), while the other passage says that there can be no justification (salvation) without works. The key is to understand that God did not spell things out here for us because he didn't specify whose works he's talking about. Therefore, when we read these passages, we automatically assume that our works are in view in both passages, and they're not.

Galatians 2:16 is referring to mankind's works. That their works can never justify them or keep them justified.
While James 2:20-26 is referring to Christ's work of salvation on behalf of his elect. It was Christ's faith together with his work that justified his elect. If you re-read Galatians 2:16 above, you'll see that it speaks of the faith OF Christ by which we have become justified. Christ's faith along with Christ's works is the key.

John 9:4 (KJV 1900)
I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

[Eloi]

[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #3]
People don't seem to understand that Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in a totally works-based salvation. We believe that one must accept Christ and what he has done for us, and THEN perform works that are in line with his teachings. They go hand-in-hand: Belief and works. Just one of them isn't enough. "Faith without works is dead." (James 2:26)

I don't know all that J.W.'s believe, but it's actually irrelevant what any religion believes on this or any subject, because they all differ from one another. (...)

If that may be the case with organized religions, how would be with independent bibliologists?

[2timothy316]

The problem with this thread is that nowhere in the Bible does it say "justification by works".

Then please re-read the thread because you missed where the Bible says it in the book of James.

One is not justified by their works. They are declared righteous by their works. There is a difference. To use the word justified gives the wrong idea. As if they are legally off the hook and above sentencing and thus they are justified to do whatever they want to do. This is not the case.

"You see that a man is to be declared righteous by works and not by faith alone."- James 2:24

A righteous person is not free of judgement but still held accountable by what they do. A righteous person's sins will not be held against them as long as they work at being righteous.

[onewithhim]

The problem with this thread is that nowhere in the Bible does it say "justification by works".

Then please re-read the thread because you missed where the Bible says it in the book of James.

James doesn't teach justification by works. He says that works go along with faith.