JUSTIFICATION BY WORKS & NO JUSTIFICATION BY WORKS

[Eddie Ramos]

Justification (salvation) by works is indeed a true biblical doctrine.

James 2:20–26 (KJV (WS))
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

No justification (no salvation) by works is also a true biblical doctrine.

Galatians 2:16 (KJV (WS))
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


So, then what's the problem here?

[Eddie Ramos]

One is not justified by their works. They are declared righteous by their works. There is a difference. To use the word justified gives the wrong idea. As if they are legally off the hook and above sentencing and thus they are justified to do whatever they want to do. This is not the case.

"You see that a man is to be declared righteous by works and not by faith alone."- James 2:24

A righteous person is not free of judgement but still held accountable by what they do. A righteous person's sins will not be held against them as long as they work at being righteous.

The Bible doesn't care what "idea" we think a particular word is giving when it it is used. God used every word he has decided to use in His Word (the original texts). Therefore, it doesn't matter if you chose a Bible version that makes you feel better about how something is being said. The bottom line is, what word did God choose to use in James 2:24? It's the Greek word "δικαιόω" (dikaioō). And how does God use this word in the Bible? Well, it's easy to see that this word is mostly translated as "justified", no matter what translation you use. So, when we go to James 2:24, here's the first problem I see with the translation you chose. Your translation says, "declared righteous", yet the Bible has it's very own Greek word for the word "declared" which is not in the Greek text of this verse. So, your translation added it without in order to satisfy their own bias. The word "righteous" is a noun but the word "justify" is a verb, which is the correct tense of this Greek word in James 2:24, which is precisely why the translators correctly translated it as "justified".

James 2:24 (KJV 1900)
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Now, you also said that "one is not justified by their works". And that statement would be correct, but that is not what the text says, neither did I ever say that. The text says, "by works a man is justified" but it's not specifying by whose works they are justified. And that's the key to this chapter in James. Man naturally thinks that this is speaking of their own work which justifies them, but that's not possible because other scriptures would contradict that idea. Neither is anyone made righteous by their works (they're essentially the same word). The works this chapter is speaking of are the works of the man Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 4:3 (KJV 1900)
For we which have believed do enter into rest (this is salvation), as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

The works of Christ in making payment for sins from the foundation of the world, made it possible for all of his elect to enter into his rest since the beginning of the world. It is his work that justifies us, not our own. Or, if you prefer, it is his work which makes us righteous and not our own.

And there is no amount of righteous work that a saved person can do that adds one iota to his salvation, or keeps him saved, or anything else of the sort. The true children of God are not saved, nor kept saved, nor kept free from the guilt of sin by any work of their own. The same God who begun this good work in us will see it to completion.

[2timothy316]

One is not justified by their works. They are declared righteous by their works. There is a difference. To use the word justified gives the wrong idea. As if they are legally off the hook and above sentencing and thus they are justified to do whatever they want to do. This is not the case.

"You see that a man is to be declared righteous by works and not by faith alone."- James 2:24

A righteous person is not free of judgement but still held accountable by what they do. A righteous person's sins will not be held against them as long as they work at being righteous.

The Bible doesn't care what "idea" we think a particular word is giving when it it is used.

The Author of the Bible does.

“Do your utmost to present yourself approved to God, a workman with nothing to be ashamed of, handling the word of the truth aright.”​—2 TIMOTHY 2:15.

There are those that will do and say terrible things because they feel they are 'justified' in their actions. But they are are the ones setting their own standard for what is justified. Approved by their own sense of justice. Also, Christ doesn't make make a person righteous or justified. it is what a person DOES in their life that makes them righteous.

One seeking righteousness on the other hand is something more in-line with the rest of the scriptures. Matthew 6:33 we are told to seek righteousness not justification.

There are some other translations of James 2:24 that are better than the one you present and there is only bias for what is accurate and not determined by hundreds of years of biased religious dogma.

New Living Translation
So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do, not by faith alone.

Contemporary English Version
You can now see that we please God by what we do and not only by what we believe.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
You see that a person receives God's approval because of what he does, not only because of what he believes.

Good News Translation
You see, then, that it is by our actions that we are put right with God, and not by our faith alone.

Literal Standard Version
You see, then, that man is considered righteous out of works, and not out of faith only;

Weymouth New Testament
You all see that it is because of actions that a man is pronounced righteous, and not simply because of faith.

Young's Literal Translation
Ye see, then, that out of works is man declared righteous, and not out of faith only;

Lamsa Bible
You see then, how a man by works becomes righteous, and not by faith only.

[Miles]

One is not justified by their works. They are declared righteous by their works. There is a difference. To use the word justified gives the wrong idea. As if they are legally off the hook and above sentencing and thus they are justified to do whatever they want to do. This is not the case.

"You see that a man is to be declared righteous by works and not by faith alone."- James 2:24

A righteous person is not free of judgement but still held accountable by what they do. A righteous person's sins will not be held against them as long as they work at being righteous.

The Bible doesn't care what "idea" we think a particular word is giving when it it is used.

The Author of the Bible does.

Then why would he permit so many translations of his word, such as in Philippians 3:8 where σκύβαλον (skybalon) has been translated as

"dung" 11 times
"refuse" 4 times
"garbage" 10 times
"filth" 2 times
"trash" 6 times
"worthless" 2 times
"less than nothing" 3 times
"manure" 1 time
"rubbish" 13 times
"waste" 1 time
"dirt" 1 time
"sewer trash" 1 time.

Think god is pleased to see this? If not, then why hasn't he corrected it? Could he be incapable? OR maybe he just doesn't care.


.

[2timothy316]

One is not justified by their works. They are declared righteous by their works. There is a difference. To use the word justified gives the wrong idea. As if they are legally off the hook and above sentencing and thus they are justified to do whatever they want to do. This is not the case.

"You see that a man is to be declared righteous by works and not by faith alone."- James 2:24

A righteous person is not free of judgement but still held accountable by what they do. A righteous person's sins will not be held against them as long as they work at being righteous.

The Bible doesn't care what "idea" we think a particular word is giving when it it is used.

The Author of the Bible does.

Then why would he permit so many translations of his word, such as in Philippians 3:8 where σκύβαλον (skybalon) has been translated as

"dung" 11 times
"refuse" 4 times
"garbage" 10 times
"filth" 2 times
"trash" 6 times
"worthless" 2 times
"less than nothing" 3 times
"manure" 1 time
"rubbish" 13 times
"waste" 1 time
"dirt" 1 time
"sewer trash" 1 time.

Think god is pleased to see this? If not, then why hasn't he corrected it? Could he be incapable? OR maybe he just doesn't care.


.

They all convey the thought Paul was writing about. So I don't know what you think needs correction. What does this have to do with the OP?

[Miles]

One is not justified by their works. They are declared righteous by their works. There is a difference. To use the word justified gives the wrong idea. As if they are legally off the hook and above sentencing and thus they are justified to do whatever they want to do. This is not the case.

"You see that a man is to be declared righteous by works and not by faith alone."- James 2:24

A righteous person is not free of judgement but still held accountable by what they do. A righteous person's sins will not be held against them as long as they work at being righteous.

The Bible doesn't care what "idea" we think a particular word is giving when it it is used.

The Author of the Bible does.

Then why would he permit so many translations of his word such as in Philippians 3:8. where σκύβαλον (skybalon) has been translated as

"dung" 11 times
"refuse" 4 times
"garbage" 10 times
"filth" 2 times
"trash" 6 times
"worthless" 2 times
"less than nothing" 3 times
"manure" 1 time
"rubbish" 13 times
"waste" 1 time
"dirt" 1 time
"sewer trash" 1 time.

Think god is pleased to see this? If not, then why hasn't he corrected it? Could he be incapable? OR maybe he just doesn't care.


.

They all convey the thought Paul was writing about. So I don't know what you think needs correction. What does this have to do with the OP?

Because Eddie Ramos said, "The Bible doesn't care what "idea" we think a particular word is giving when it it is used." Of course, no book cares about anything, so I'm assuming he means the supposed author of the Bible, god, doesn't care what "idea" we think a particular word is giving when it it is used. To which you replied "The Author of the Bible does." IOW, god cares about the ideas we attach to particular words in the Bible.

Which led me to ask: "(If god cares about the ideas we attach to particular words in the Bible) then why would he permit so many translations of his word, such as [the word] σκύβαλον in Philippians 3:8 where σκύβαλον (skybalon) has been translated as

"dung" 11 times
.
.
.
"sewer trash" 1 time. . . .

All of which I agree have nothing to do with the subject of OP, but is an issue you either brought up or are continuing, and I'm simply responding to. And just to be clear, I don't think anything needs correction in the Bible, I'm quite fine with all the troubles it has as is, which stand as confirmation of its fallibility.

.

[Purple Knight]

Justification (salvation) by works is indeed a true biblical doctrine.

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

This reads like a definite "both" to me: A first thing (faith) and then the next step (works). Abraham was justified by works, but it flat-out says he did it because he had faith. Sacrificing your son is not something you do if you believe nothing.

[2timothy316]

Justification (salvation) by works is indeed a true biblical doctrine.

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

This reads like a definite "both" to me: A first thing (faith) and then the next step (works). Abraham was justified by works, but it flat-out says he did it because he had faith. Sacrificing your son is not something you do if you believe nothing.

Salvation and justification or salvation and righteousness are not two sides of the same coin. Righteous and faithful are. Eternal life is a gift according to Romans 6:23. A gift is not earned.

Why would I say this?
If works was the payment for eternal life, what is the measurement of how much faithful work does one have to do to gain eternity? How much works can a person confined to a wheelchair accomplish compared to a person that isn't? The Bible doesn't give how much work a person must do. It just says what we need to be declared. That being righteous. Not self-righteous though. This is clear in Matthew 7:21-23 where there are those that will actually be doing works but are not declared righteous.

Does this mean that we shouldn't do work at anything, no way! The Bible is clear that it is what we do that declares our faithfulness but not our salvation. Who gets the gift of eternal life is not by our choice by earning it but by God's choice of those he feels are deserving. No amount of work we can do can ever pay for eternal life. it is only working because of our love of Jehovah God and His Son we are declared righteous. This is the only way a person that is not able to accomplish as much as another can gain life. For more understanding on this read Matthew 20:1-16

[Adonai Yahweh]

Romans 3:27-31 CJB version " So what room is left for boasting? None at all! What kind of Torah excludes it? One that has to do with legalistic observance of rules? No, rather, a Torah that has to do with trusting. Therefore, we hold the view that a person comes to be considered righteous by God on the ground of trusting, which has nothing to do with legalistic observance of Torah commands. Or is God the God of the Jews only? Isn't he also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, he is indeed the God of the Gentiles; because, as you will admit, God is one. Therefore, he will consider righteous the circumcised on the ground of trusting and the uncircumcised through that same trusting. Does it follow that we abolish Torah by this trusting? Heaven forbid! On the contrary, we confirm Torah" .
The works that you refer to is the law , Jesus is the living embodiment of Torah ( law of Moses ) so our righteousness comes from trusting in him . The purpose of the Torah was to unmask mans sinful nature . Therefore when we trust in Jesus and accept him as our Lord and savior , we receive the holy spirit within us . The holy spirit enables us to love in the likeness of God and this is shown in Romans 13:8-10 " Don't owe anyone anything - except to love one another; for whoever loves his fellow human being has fulfilled Torah. For the commandments, "Don't commit adultery," "Don't murder," "Don't steal," "Don't covet," and any others are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." Love does not do harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fullness of Torah ".
Therefore our works is to spread the love of God to the world and this completed through our faith in Jesus . The Holy spirit inside of us will guide us and teach us to do his works with faith . This is confirmed through John 14 also in verse 26 that states that he will send the holy spirit to be a counselor , to teach you and guide you on the ways of Jesus Christ .

[2timothy316]

Romans 3:27-31 CJB version " So what room is left for boasting? None at all! What kind of Torah excludes it? One that has to do with legalistic observance of rules? No, rather, a Torah that has to do with trusting. Therefore, we hold the view that a person comes to be considered righteous by God on the ground of trusting, which has nothing to do with legalistic observance of Torah commands. Or is God the God of the Jews only? Isn't he also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, he is indeed the God of the Gentiles; because, as you will admit, God is one. Therefore, he will consider righteous the circumcised on the ground of trusting and the uncircumcised through that same trusting. Does it follow that we abolish Torah by this trusting? Heaven forbid! On the contrary, we confirm Torah" .
The works that you refer to is the law , Jesus is the living embodiment of Torah ( law of Moses ) so our righteousness comes from trusting in him . The purpose of the Torah was to unmask mans sinful nature . Therefore when we trust in Jesus and accept him as our Lord and savior , we receive the holy spirit within us . The holy spirit enables us to love in the likeness of God and this is shown in Romans 13:8-10 " Don't owe anyone anything - except to love one another; for whoever loves his fellow human being has fulfilled Torah. For the commandments, "Don't commit adultery," "Don't murder," "Don't steal," "Don't covet," and any others are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." Love does not do harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fullness of Torah ".
Therefore our works is to spread the love of God to the world and this completed through our faith in Jesus . The Holy spirit inside of us will guide us and teach us to do his works with faith . This is confirmed through John 14 also in verse 26 that states that he will send the holy spirit to be a counselor , to teach you and guide you on the ways of Jesus Christ .

So how does this tie in with salvation? Does eternal life come through the works of loving one's neighbor as one's self? Plainly, what is your point toward the OP?

[Adonai Yahweh]

Eternal life is achieved through faith ( complete trusting in God ) through this faith we receive the Holy Spirit which enable us to keep the Torah command which is to love thy neighbour . Why ? because the holy spirit nature is love which inside you ... it means that you can give love to other people . So faith and work go together ... if you have faith you will do the works of God too automatically because you are lead by the Holy spirit