God May Become An "It"

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God May Become An "It"

Post #1

Post by Miles »

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From a February 8, Washington Post article


"Is God They/Them? Church of England considers gender-neutral pronouns.


LONDON — The Church of England is exploring whether to use gender-neutral language instead of referring to God solely with masculine pronouns, such as “He” or “Our Father” — which would be a major change after millennia of prayer and teachings.

The church is launching a project on “gendered language” this spring, following a years-long effort to study the ways in which God is referred to and addressed in liturgy and worship.

“Christians have recognised since ancient times that God is neither male nor female,” the Church of England said in an emailed statement. “Yet the variety of ways of addressing and describing God found in scripture has not always been reflected in our worship.”

The British press, which had been following the synod’s discussion over the proposal to allow priests to bless same-sex couples, quickly picked up the comments. Some commentators framed it as a political decision by the church — with one unnamed priest telling the Times of London that some people “think we’re being a bit woke.”

Yet “assigning a gender to God has always been a matter of metaphor, since we are incapable of saying anything that encapsulates divinity effectively in human language,” the Rev. Diarmaid MacCulloch, emeritus professor of the history of the church at Oxford University, said in an email. “It’s therefore only natural that we should explore further how we might speak of God in the liturgy, given the vast shifts in understanding gender and sexuality that are going forward in society.”


So, what do you think, drop the "He/Him/Father" designation and perhaps change it to "She/Her/Mother" for a while----like for a couple thousand years or so----to make up for the somewhat sexist designation god's been saddled with, or go right to "It"? . . Or ? ? ______your suggestion______ .

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Re: God May Become An "It"

Post #11

Post by JehovahsWitness »

WHY DOES GOD HAVE A GENDER?
The word God has a "Grammatical gender " in many languages, for the same reason in French DOOR is "feminine" and RADIATOR "masculine" it's just how certain languages have evolved to classify nouns. (Grammatical gender has little to do with biological gender).

Does the biblical God have a biological gender? No, the God of the bible is presented as neither male nor female, it states : "God is a spirit" and spirits are not biological beings.

Why does the bible liken God to a man/male/Father? Because that is a useful metaphor to help humans understand certain aspects of His nature.

Does the bible ever liken God metaphorically to a woman/mother? Yes (see Psalm 131:2 ; 123: 2-3)

What are God's choice of personal pronouns? He/his/him









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Romans 14:8

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Re: God May Become An "It"

Post #12

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 2:31 pm
Miles wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:32 amSo, what do you think, drop the "He/Him/Father" designation and perhaps change it to "She/Her/Mother" ...
No, the designation (Father ) is based on scripture (Matthew 6:9)
MATTHEW 28:19

Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit

Bible verses : https://www.openbible.info/topics/god_the_father
So what do you make of:Matthew 1:23 where Jesus's name means “God is with us”?

“The virgin will conceive and bear a son, and they will call him ‘Immanu El.” (The name means, “God is with us.”) [which had been said by god through his prophet, identifying Jesus as god.]

Or

Mark 2:5-7
5 When Jesus saw how much faith they had, he said to the paralyzed man, “Young man, your sins are forgiven.”
6 Some of the teachers of the law were sitting there. They saw what Jesus did, and they said to themselves, 7 “Why does this man say things like that? What an insult to God! No one but God can forgive sins.” [Yet Jesus did just that, which would make him . . . . O:) O:) O:).]

OR

John 1:1
1 Before the world began, the Word* was there. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. [an unmistakable confirmation of identity]

* The Greek word is “logos,” meaning any kind of communication. It could be translated “message.” Here, it describes Jesus Christ before he was sent to earth as a human being, which is the way God chose to tell the world about himself.
source

Or

John 20:27-28
27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here. Look at my hands. Put your hand here in my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28 Thomas said to Jesus, “My Lord and my God!” [Recognizing that Jesus is god]

Or the infamous

John 10:30
I and the Father are one. [And right from the horse's mouth no less]

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Re: God May Become An "It"

Post #13

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:10 pm
So what do you make of:Matthew 1:23 where Jesus's name means “God is with us”?

“The virgin will conceive and bear a son, and they will call him ‘Immanu El.” (The name means, “God is with us.”) [which had been said by god through his prophet, identifying Jesus as god.]


DOES THE FACT THAT JESUS WAS PROPHECIED A THEOPHORIC NAME MEAN HE MUST HAVE BEEN EQUAL TO ALMIGHTY GOD YHWH THE FATHER?


I disagree that bearing the name Emmanuel identifys Jesus as god. In my opinion Matthew simply applies a prophecy giving a theophoric name to Jesus. Theophoric names were not uncommon are in Jewish culture.
THEOPHORIC (from Greek: θεόφορος, theophoros, literally "bearing or carrying a god") embeds the word equivalent of 'god' or God's name in a person's name, reflecting something about the character of the person so named in relation to that deity
EL-ijah - my GOD is Jah
Gabri-EL - Mighty man of GOD
EL-isha - GOD Is Salvation
Dani-EL - My Judge Is GOD
Samu-EL - Name of GOD
Jo-EL - Jehovah Is GOD


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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat Feb 18, 2023 7:21 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: God May Become An "It"

Post #14

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:10 pm
Mark 2:5-7
5 When Jesus saw how much faith they had, he said to the paralyzed man, “Young man, your sins are forgiven.”
6 Some of the teachers of the law were sitting there. They saw what Jesus did, and they said to themselves, 7 “Why does this man say things like that? What an insult to God! No one but God can forgive sins.”
WERE JESUS ENEMIES THE PHARISEES CORRECT THAT ONLY ALMIGHTY GOD COULD HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO FORGIVE SINS?

No. The Pharisees failed to understand that God could delegate any authority to whom he chooses. Jesus is recorded in scripture as saying

MATTHEW 28:18

Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth




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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: God May Become An "It"

Post #15

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:10 pm
John 1:1
1 Before the world began, the Word* was there. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. [an unmistakable confirmation of identity]
Correct. John 1:1 identifies The Word but NOT as Almighty God YHWH.

Miles wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:10 pm
* The Greek word is “logos,” meaning any kind of communication. It could be translated “message.” Here, it describes Jesus Christ before he was sent to earth as a human being, which is the way God chose to tell the world about himself.
source




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This is correct, scripturally Jesus is Gods messenger; meaning God communicated by sending Jesus (The Word ) to the earth. None of that implies The Word (logos) is or was equal in power or position to Almighty God YHWH The Father or that the two are the same person.
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat Feb 18, 2023 1:17 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: God May Become An "It"

Post #16

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:10 pm
John 20:27-28
27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here. Look at my hands. Put your hand here in my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28 Thomas said to Jesus, “My Lord and my God!” [Recognizing that Jesus is god]

Jesus is a god ; he just isn't Almighty God YHWH Jehovah.





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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat Feb 18, 2023 1:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: God May Become An "It"

Post #17

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:10 pm
John 10:30
I and the Father are one. [And right from the horse's mouth no less]

.



Miles wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 am
... Jesus was not saying his disciples were Almighty God and part of a trinity!
Of course not. Just as Jesus and god were united, so too were his disciples united. [...] Jesus never said "he was literally "one God" with the Father," but rather that he and his father were one. Hardly the same claim.




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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: God May Become An "It"

Post #18

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:58 pm
Miles wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:10 pm
So what do you make of:Matthew 1:23 where Jesus's name means “God is with us”?

“The virgin will conceive and bear a son, and they will call him ‘Immanu El.” (The name means, “God is with us.”) [which had been said by god through his prophet, identifying Jesus as god.]


DOES THE FACT THAT JESUS WAS PROPHECIED A THEOPHORIC NAME MEAN HE MUST HAVE BEEN EQUAL TO ALMIGHTY GOD YHWH THE FATHER?
Only to the extent that it raises the question of naming someone X when the meaning of X doesn't apply? If the meaning of Immanu El, that god is with us, does not apply to Jesus--Jesus is not the embodiment of god--then why indicate he is by naming him as such? To deny the meaning of Immanu El is to deny that god was with them. When Jesus was born naming him Immanu El would have been a mistake. God was not there as Jesus. They were not one and the same. BUT, that's not what Matthew 1:23 says. Matthew tells us that by bringing Jesus into the world "they" are saying that god too is brought into the world, in which case Jesus and god must be identical. There is no mention of piggy-backing, as if god rode in alongside Jesus, or tagged along. Nope "they" called Jesus Immanu El because that is what "they" construed Jesus to be: god.

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Re: God May Become An "It"

Post #19

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 6:40 pm
When Jesus was born naming him Immanu El would have been a mistake. God was not there as Jesus. ...
God does not need to be literally on earth in the bodily form of Jesus (or anybody) to be "with" his people. One can be figuratively with someone meaning to support and strengten them, while being literally in another location. Jesus as God's messenger and representative meant God was "with" his people in a special way, but nothing in any of Jesus' names, indicate his being equal in power, rank or age to the the Father YHWH much less his being God Almighty Himself.


PSALM 23:4
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you [YHWH] are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.

JOSHUA 1:9
Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be frightened, and do not be dismayed, for the Lord your God is with you wherever you go.”

ZEPHANIAH 3:17
The Lord your God is in your midst , a mighty one who will save; he will rejoice over you with gladness; he will quiet you by his love; he will exult over you with loud singing.

PSALM 46:7
The Lord of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our fortress.


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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: God May Become An "It"

Post #20

Post by 1213 »

Miles wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 12:48 pm
1213 wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:38 am
Miles wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 1:49 pm Q. Why would Jesus feel it necessary that his followers call god "Father" in order to be a Christian? Did you read this somewhere or is this just your opinion. If it's more than your opinion please cite the relevant book, chapter, and verse.
I think Jesus thought, if person is his disciple, he remains in word of Jesus.

Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, “If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples.
John 8:31

What do you think that means?
That if you follow Jesus's teachings then you're one of his disciples. Question is, did Jesus ever teach his followers that it was necessary to call god "father" in order to remain a disciple? If he did then please point out the chapter and verse.

.
Did he say about anything "it is necessary"? He called God the Father and I think, if one remain in his word, he does the same.

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