Did Adam make the right choice?

[Revelations won]

Did Adam make the right choice?

Did Adam make the right choice in partaking of the fruit from the tree of knowledge and should we be grateful to him and give due respect and honor our first earthly parents?

2. Did Adam’s choice prohibit anyone from receiving ALL that our Father in heaven has ever promised us pertaining to our eternal destiny?

Kind regards,
RW

[2timothy316]

I think Adam and Eve made the wrong choice. Instead of trusting in their omniscient, omnibenevolent Creator, they chose to trust their own limited wisdom to decide what would be good/bad for them. So, I don’t think we should honor them for that. I don't think this choice prohibited anyone from receiving all God has for them, though.

Agreed. On top of them trusting their own wisdom they choose to listen to an animal...something that has done absolutely nothing for them...I mean there's noting sus about that...
It reminds me of a saying that goes: The only thing keeping mankind from straight up doing whatever they want is no one saying it's ok. But give mankind the ok, and the most horrible things in history happen.
The ok came from a snake, a nobody in the grand scheme of things, and that's all they needed. Isn't that typical of humans that want to do horrible things? Just need someone with some charisma to bring out the worst in themselves into the worst atrocities in human history.

[Miles]

Logically, he wouldn't know if he chose not to know. Unless omnipotent has a different meaning, if he didn't want to know .... He didn't know.

Not talking about omnipotence but omniscience

om·nis·cience
/ämˈniSH(ə)ns/
noun: omniscience
..... the state of knowing everything.
source:Oxford Languages

Which means god already knew. Choosing doesn't even enter into the equation.



.

We have to figure in omnipotence because the Bible God is BOTH omniscience and omnipotent. And omnipotence [which by definition] trumps omniscience , means he would only have known if he had WANTED to know.

............................................................................
.................................................................................... Good one!
............................................................................At least you're original


.

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to Revelations won in post #1]

Yes Adam and Eve made the right choice, the choice God had purposed that they would make, it was in accordance with His Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus before the world began Eph 3:11

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Adam and Eve were Created for Christ and this Purpose Col 1:15-18

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

[Revelations won]

To all respondents,

I appreciate your varied responses. I would suggest you consider carefully the following points:

1. Adam and Eve were like the rest of us and were as the scriptures attest, spirit children of God, our Eternal Father who is indeed the father of all his spirit children.

2. Each of us as spirit children of divine parents received spirit bodies and in heaven were on our mission to grow and become prepared to receive at our appointed time physical bodies of flesh and bone.

3. Adam and Eve dwelt in the Garden off Eden for a unspecified period which could have been hundreds of years.

4. They had no children during their entire time in the garden.

5. They appear to have all memory of their pre-earth life erased like the rest of us when we were born.

6. In their child like innocence according to the Bible their eyes were not yet opened to understand good or evil. In other words they had zero experience in exercising the power of agency.

7. As such they were not capable of understanding the consequences of exercising agency.

8. There is nothing to indicate that they had any concept of what this new word death meant.

9. At that point in history they were unaware that God had appointed a time for all men to die.

10. At that time they were not yet informed that Jesus Christ was foreordained before the foundations of this world to become the savior of all mankind.

11. At that time they were not informed that all mankind would be redeemed and by his atonement be resurrected and overcome death.

12. Adam and Eve were placed in the Garden of Eden as immortal beings not subject to death.

13. They received the God given gift of agency and told that they may chose for themselves.

14. I find nowhere any evidence or statement that God cursed Adam.

15. It appears that mortality is indeed a part and parcel of our mortal probation on this earth.

16. Death has never denied anyone from receiving every blessing God has ever promised including eternal life.

Kind regards,
RW

[tam]

Peace to you,

Did Adam make the right choice?

He disobeyed a commandment from God. How can that be the right choice?

Did Adam make the right choice in partaking of the fruit from the tree of knowledge and should we be grateful to him and give due respect and honor our first earthly parents?

We can be respectful while acknowledging that he did not make the right choice.

"Judge not lest ye be judged."

2. Did Adam’s choice prohibit anyone from receiving ALL that our Father in heaven has ever promised us pertaining to our eternal destiny?

Adam's disobedience and disloyalty does not prohibit us from being able to receive all that God has promised us. But that is not due to Adam; that is due to God - and to Christ (the last Adam, the Son who proved faithful, even giving His life for us).

Kind regards,
RW

Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[JehovahsWitness]

5. They appear to have all memory of their pre-earth life erased like the rest of us when we were born.

There is nothing in thd bible that indicates Adam and Eve had a "pre-earth life ". The bible said Adam was made from the dust of the ground , it does not say "remade" "resurrected" or "sent down". Indeed Jesus was clear, nobody but him had descended from heaven.

[Miles]

To all respondents,

I appreciate your varied responses. I would suggest you consider carefully the following points:

1. Adam and Eve were like the rest of us and were as the scriptures attest, spirit children of God, our Eternal Father who is indeed the father of all his spirit children.

I'm a spirit child? What the heck does that mean? And what's the difference between spirit children and non-spirit children?

2. Each of us as spirit children of divine parents received spirit bodies and in heaven were on our mission to grow and become prepared to receive at our appointed time physical bodies of flesh and bone.

WHAT? I have divine parents? How do you know? By the by, how do you come by such odd information?

3. Adam and Eve dwelt in the Garden off Eden for a unspecified period which could have been hundreds of years.

Or one (1) day.

4. They had no children during their entire time in the garden.

Having spent only a single day there it's almost a given, don't you think?

5. They appear to have all memory of their pre-earth life erased like the rest of us when we were born.

Just because they never talked about it? That's pretty presumptuous of you don't you think? And how do you know there was a memory of a pre-earth life to be erased in the first place?

6. In their child like innocence according to the Bible their eyes were not yet opened to understand good or evil. In other words they had zero experience in exercising the power of agency.

Yet god treated them as if that's exactly what their eyes were, open, which would be the only reason for finding them responsible for eating the apple. People with zero experience in exercising the power of agency are almost always young children or the mentally impaired, which is why we mere humans hold such people to a much lower standard of wrong doing. BUT obviously god has other standards for culpability, and jumps at the chance to condemn. I mean, My God, he saddled all of humanity with sin just because two innocent people failed to do what he said. A voice from the sky that, as far as we know, never proved himself to be king of the hill and worth listening to. How fair is that? It isn't, yet people still call him good.

7. As such they were not capable of understanding the consequences of exercising agency.

BINGO!

8. There is nothing to indicate that they had any concept of what this new word death meant.

Checking around, I don't believe the word ever came up. Got a chapter and verse where it does?

9. At that point in history they were unaware that God had appointed a time for all men to die.

God actually appointed a time for us all to die?? What time is that? Like, what time did he appoint you to die?

10. At that time they were not yet informed that Jesus Christ was foreordained before the foundations of this world to become the savior of all mankind.

Curious, how do you know Jesus was foreordained before the foundations of this world to become the savior of all mankind? Is this in the Bible somewhere?

11. At that time they were not informed that all mankind would be redeemed and by his atonement be resurrected and overcome death.

At least there's no record of it, but who knows, perhaps they were

12. Adam and Eve were placed in the Garden of Eden as immortal beings not subject to death.

But god, being omniscient, certainly knew they would be subject to death. In fact, before he even created the world he would have known how the whole Eden fiasco would all play out, wouldn't he. Of course he would.

13. They received the God given gift of agency and told that they may chose for themselves.

Err, just what does this agency thing consist of?

14. I find nowhere any evidence or statement that God cursed Adam.

Should he have?

15. It appears that mortality is indeed a part and parcel of our mortal probation on this earth.

"Appears"? Are you doubting that everyone is subject to death?

16. Death has never denied anyone from receiving every blessing God has ever promised including eternal life.

Are you suggesting that death has the power of denial or sanction?

.

[The Tanager]

To all respondents,

I appreciate your varied responses. I would suggest you consider carefully the following points:

1. Adam and Eve were like the rest of us and were as the scriptures attest, spirit children of God, our Eternal Father who is indeed the father of all his spirit children.

2. Each of us as spirit children of divine parents received spirit bodies and in heaven were on our mission to grow and become prepared to receive at our appointed time physical bodies of flesh and bone.

3. Adam and Eve dwelt in the Garden off Eden for a unspecified period which could have been hundreds of years.

4. They had no children during their entire time in the garden.

5. They appear to have all memory of their pre-earth life erased like the rest of us when we were born.

6. In their child like innocence according to the Bible their eyes were not yet opened to understand good or evil. In other words they had zero experience in exercising the power of agency.

7. As such they were not capable of understanding the consequences of exercising agency.

8. There is nothing to indicate that they had any concept of what this new word death meant.

9. At that point in history they were unaware that God had appointed a time for all men to die.

10. At that time they were not yet informed that Jesus Christ was foreordained before the foundations of this world to become the savior of all mankind.

11. At that time they were not informed that all mankind would be redeemed and by his atonement be resurrected and overcome death.

12. Adam and Eve were placed in the Garden of Eden as immortal beings not subject to death.

13. They received the God given gift of agency and told that they may chose for themselves.

14. I find nowhere any evidence or statement that God cursed Adam.

15. It appears that mortality is indeed a part and parcel of our mortal probation on this earth.

16. Death has never denied anyone from receiving every blessing God has ever promised including eternal life.

Which passages lead you to believe these points?

[onewithhim]

.. God ... knowing before Adam was ever created that he would disobey god and eat the apple?

I disagree with your premise.

That god knew before Adam was ever created that he would disobey him and eat the apple? Why wouldn't god know such a thing?

.

It actually has been explained many times before that God can choose to refrain from knowing everything. He might want to be made aware after the particular event in mind. Why should God know all things just because he can? It would truly be very boring for him, wouldn't it? He chose to not know what Adam would do, until he did it.

[Revelations won]

Re: Did Adam make the right choice?
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Post #18
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by The Tanager » Tue Feb 21, 2023 6:14 pm


Revelations won wrote: ↑
Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:10 pm
To all respondents,

I appreciate your varied responses. I would suggest you consider carefully the following points:

1. Adam and Eve were like the rest of us and were as the scriptures attest, spirit children of God, our Eternal Father who is indeed the father of all his spirit children.

2. Each of us as spirit children of divine parents received spirit bodies and in heaven were on our mission to grow and become prepared to receive at our appointed time physical bodies of flesh and bone.

3. Adam and Eve dwelt in the Garden off Eden for a unspecified period which could have been hundreds of years.

4. They had no children during their entire time in the garden.

5. They appear to have all memory of their pre-earth life erased like the rest of us when we were born.

6. In their child like innocence according to the Bible their eyes were not yet opened to understand good or evil. In other words they had zero experience in exercising the power of agency.

7. As such they were not capable of understanding the consequences of exercising agency.

8. There is nothing to indicate that they had any concept of what this new word death meant.

9. At that point in history they were unaware that God had appointed a time for all men to die.

10. At that time they were not yet informed that Jesus Christ was foreordained before the foundations of this world to become the savior of all mankind.

11. At that time they were not informed that all mankind would be redeemed and by his atonement be resurrected and overcome death.

12. Adam and Eve were placed in the Garden of Eden as immortal beings not subject to death.

13. They received the God given gift of agency and told that they may chose for themselves.

14. I find nowhere any evidence or statement that God cursed Adam.

15. It appears that mortality is indeed a part and parcel of our mortal probation on this earth.

16. Death has never denied anyone from receiving every blessing God has ever promised including eternal life.

Which passages lead you to believe these points?


Dear Tanager,

Your above question is of extreme importance, the magnitude is almost overwhelming in it’s height and depth, width and scope!

You certainly place a huge burden on me to declare the reasons and hope that is in me. I stated in the above post 16 points. I will therefore post in individual posts one at a time.


Re: Did Adam make the right choice?
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Post #18
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by The Tanager » Tue Feb 21, 2023 6:14 pm
Revelations won wrote: ↑
Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:10 pm
To all respondents,

I appreciate your varied responses. I would suggest you consider carefully the following points:

1. Adam and Eve were like the rest of us and were as the scriptures attest, spirit children of God, our Eternal Father who is indeed the father of all his spirit children.

2. Each of us as spirit children of divine parents received spirit bodies and in heaven were on our mission to grow and become prepared to receive at our appointed time physical bodies of flesh and bone.

3. Adam and Eve dwelt in the Garden off Eden for a unspecified period which could have been hundreds of years.

4. They had no children during their entire time in the garden.

5. They appear to have all memory of their pre-earth life erased like the rest of us when we were born.

6. In their child like innocence according to the Bible their eyes were not yet opened to understand good or evil. In other words they had zero experience in exercising the power of agency.

7. As such they were not capable of understanding the consequences of exercising agency.

8. There is nothing to indicate that they had any concept of what this new word death meant.

9. At that point in history they were unaware that God had appointed a time for all men to die.

10. At that time they were not yet informed that Jesus Christ was foreordained before the foundations of this world to become the savior of all mankind.

11. At that time they were not informed that all mankind would be redeemed and by his atonement be resurrected and overcome death.

12. Adam and Eve were placed in the Garden of Eden as immortal beings not subject to death.

13. They received the God given gift of agency and told that they may chose for themselves.

14. I find nowhere any evidence or statement that God cursed Adam.

15. It appears that mortality is indeed a part and parcel of our mortal probation on this earth.

16. Death has never denied anyone from receiving every blessing God has ever promised including eternal life.

Which passages lead you to believe these points?


Dear Tanager,

Your above question is of extreme importance, the magnitude is almost overwhelming in it’s height and depth, width and scope!

You certainly place a huge burden on me to declare the reasons and hope that is in me. I stated in the above post 16 points. I will therefore post in individual posts one point at a time, demonstrating the scripture passages which support my position.


My response to point 1:

1. Adam and Eve were like the rest of us and were as the scriptures attest, the literal spirit spirit children of God (Eloheim), our Eternal Father who is indeed the father of all his spirit children.

The following lists some of the passages related to point 1:

The following verses illustrate the point that God the
Father is indeed the father of the spirit bodies of all flesh.

Numbers 16:22 And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?

Numbers 27:16 Let the LORD, the God of the spirits of all flesh, set a man over the congregation,

Malachi 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.


Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Luke 11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

3 Nephi 13:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.

Luke 2:49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Acts 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

1 Corinthians 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Hebrews 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

1 Nephi 11:21 And the angel said unto me: Behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Son of the Eternal Father!

As stated in the following by Isaiah, Christ (Jehovah) is the son of the most high (God the Father):

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

John 5:
36
But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
37
And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38
And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40
And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
41
I receive not honour from men.
42
But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
43
I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44
How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
45
Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46
For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47
But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

The forgoing clearly establishes the point that God the Father is the Divine Father who has fathered our spirit bodies. In other words we all received at that point in our eternal progression spirit bodies. This obviously also includes Adam and Eve and of course Jesus Christ (Jehovah). Our soul as we possess it today exists of a spirit body which, is now clothed with of a body of flesh and bone co-created by mortal parents. This corporeal body is a tangible body which houses our spirit body. At death these two bodies are separated temporarily and again reunited eternally by the mighty power of the resurrection provided by the atonement of Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ is literally our elder brother and is indeed the first born with a spirit body just as we are. Adam and Eve are likewise indeed spirit children of a loving Heavenly Father, for the above scriptures clearly establish the fact that God the Father is literally the father of ALL FLESH.


Jesus Christ alone is additionally legitimately sired by God the Father and stands in his unique position as “the only begotten Son of God in the flesh”.


I will respond to point 2 in my next post.


Best regards,
RW