For Trinitarians: Three seaprate persons as one or just one person who is all three?

[2timothy316]

IMHO, Father, Son and Holy Spirit have human characteristics: emotions, will, etc. We are created in the image of God. Perhaps saying three persons in one God helps people to understand better. I have no idea. All I know is that there is ONE GOD, and He is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Jesus is the Father.

The Encyclopedia Britannica says: Trinity, in Christian doctrine, the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Trinity-Christianity

So which is it? Is Jesus the Father and HS as one person? Or is it the more accepted dogma, three persons are one?

[JehovahsWitness]

There are probably as many flavors of "trinitarians" as there are denominations. I dont think most are being evasive, its just how do you answer questions on a "mystery? I personally tend to focus on specifics such as being equal in rank, power, knowledge and age. In any case, in my opinion, they are not a united body so nobody cares if beliefs are contradictory.

The question of Jesus being both the Father and the Son when examined closely , is I think, only possible via neither being an individual person. Traditionally most trinitarians I have spoken to, acknowledge three persons, so believing they are one PERSON is a particularly difficult position to hold. I doubt if you'll get anyone that holds such a belief to explain it anyway, but you're welcome to try.

If we define person as an intelligent individual with their own autonomous will (desires) capable of making independent moral decisions.

I’ve already posted my view.

End of that particular attempt : as no definition of "person was provided and no acknowledgment that God is a person, the somewhat nebulous belief Jesus and Jehovah are the same can be held. Of course if you ask "what are Jesus and Jehovah"? You will end up with the above.

If they are PERSONS they are two distinct individuals, if they are two distinct individuals they each have their own identity (and if the biblical pattern is to be respected NAME). The best apporach then would be to not go into such specifics.

Not for nothing it is called a mystery: Spin and repeat ad infinitum.


JW

[2timothy316]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #2]

It seems that those that tout the trinity doctrine only care when Jehovah's Witnesses 'get it wrong'. Yet, here is a trinity believer that has got it wrong by most other trinity believer standards and they are fine with it apparently with their lack presence in this thread. The message seems to be, believe as you wish about the trinity, you don't have to be right, just as long as you believe in some sort of mysterious trinity.

As for us Jehovah's Witnesses, it sure feels good to be unified in belief and bathe in the light of Jehovah and not stumbling around.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #2]

It seems that those that tout the trinity doctrine only care when Jehovah's Witnesses 'get it wrong'. Yet, here is a trinity believer that has got it wrong by most other trinity believer standards and they are fine with it apparently with their lack presence in this thread. The message seems to be, believe as you wish about the trinity, you don't have to be right, just as long as you believe in some sort of mysterious trinity.

As for us Jehovah's Witnesses, it sure feels good to be unified in belief and bathe in the light of Jehovah and not stumbling around.

Just so you know, there are other people and/or groups out there who believe that "Jesus is Michael". You (all) teach different details about this doctrine though, therefore, the "Jesus is Michael" believers aren't any more unified than "trinity believers" are unified.


I am not a trinitarian so you know that this post is not in support of that belief. Christ did not teach that He is part of a trinity; but He also did not teach that He is Michael. No one in the bible taught either of these things. I am just pointing out what appears to be a flaw in your logic. Because the same reason you are claiming "trinity believers" are not unified could equally be applied to those who believe that "Jesus is Michael".

And Christ has a name of His own: Jaheshua.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[2timothy316]

Just so you know, there are other people and/or groups out there who believe that "Jesus is Michael". You (all) teach different details about this doctrine though, therefore, the "Jesus is Michael" believers aren't any more unified than "trinity believers" are unified.

Are you talking about JWs not being unified about who Jesus is? Prove it by starting another thread. Because your post here has nothing to do with the OP.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Just so you know, there are other people and/or groups out there who believe that "Jesus is Michael". You (all) teach different details about this doctrine though, therefore, the "Jesus is Michael" believers aren't any more unified than "trinity believers" are unified.

Are you talking about JWs not being unified about who Jesus is?

No, not at all. My post had to do with your comment about jws being unified in their beliefs (which I quoted in the previous post), implying that trinitarians are not unified.

Various individual groups of "trinity believers" would be unified amongst themselves on that doctrine, but not necessarily with others who profess a trinity belief. Same as various groups of "Jesus is Michael" believers are unified amongst themselves on that doctrine (such as jws), but probably not with other groups who also believe that "Jesus is Michael".

That is all.


Peace again.

[2timothy316]

Peace to you,

Just so you know, there are other people and/or groups out there who believe that "Jesus is Michael". You (all) teach different details about this doctrine though, therefore, the "Jesus is Michael" believers aren't any more unified than "trinity believers" are unified.

Are you talking about JWs not being unified about who Jesus is?

No, not at all. My post had to do with your comment about jws being unified in their beliefs (which I quoted in the previous post), implying that trinitarians are not unified.

According to the poster quoted and what the encyclopedia states the trinity is in the OP they are not unified in their trinity doctrine teachings. Which why there is a question in the title.
Jehovah's Witnesses are unified in their teachings about Jehovah & Jesus.
Do you have an answer to the OP question or are you on your own tangent? If so, perhaps you'd like to make your own thread? Or do I need to make one for you?

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Just so you know, there are other people and/or groups out there who believe that "Jesus is Michael". You (all) teach different details about this doctrine though, therefore, the "Jesus is Michael" believers aren't any more unified than "trinity believers" are unified.

Are you talking about JWs not being unified about who Jesus is?

No, not at all. My post had to do with your comment about jws being unified in their beliefs (which I quoted in the previous post), implying that trinitarians are not unified.

According to the poster quoted and what the encyclopedia states the trinity is in the OP they are not unified in their trinity doctrine teachings. Which why there is a question in the title.
Jehovah's Witnesses are unified in their teachings about Jehovah & Jesus.

Trinitarians are not one group. Just as "Jesus is Michael" believers are not one group.


Can you see the comparison being made?


Peace again.

[2timothy316]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Just so you know, there are other people and/or groups out there who believe that "Jesus is Michael". You (all) teach different details about this doctrine though, therefore, the "Jesus is Michael" believers aren't any more unified than "trinity believers" are unified.

Are you talking about JWs not being unified about who Jesus is?

No, not at all. My post had to do with your comment about jws being unified in their beliefs (which I quoted in the previous post), implying that trinitarians are not unified.

According to the poster quoted and what the encyclopedia states the trinity is in the OP they are not unified in their trinity doctrine teachings. Which why there is a question in the title.
Jehovah's Witnesses are unified in their teachings about Jehovah & Jesus.

Trinitarians are not one group. Just as "Jesus is Michael" believers are not one group.


Can you see the comparison being made?


Peace again.

What does this have to do with the OP question?

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Just so you know, there are other people and/or groups out there who believe that "Jesus is Michael". You (all) teach different details about this doctrine though, therefore, the "Jesus is Michael" believers aren't any more unified than "trinity believers" are unified.

Are you talking about JWs not being unified about who Jesus is?

No, not at all. My post had to do with your comment about jws being unified in their beliefs (which I quoted in the previous post), implying that trinitarians are not unified.

According to the poster quoted and what the encyclopedia states the trinity is in the OP they are not unified in their trinity doctrine teachings. Which why there is a question in the title.
Jehovah's Witnesses are unified in their teachings about Jehovah & Jesus.

Trinitarians are not one group. Just as "Jesus is Michael" believers are not one group.


Can you see the comparison being made?


Peace again.

What does this have to do with the OP question?

What did your comment (that I have been responding to) have to do with the OP question?