Is there only one trinity doctrine or are there many?

[2timothy316]

Trinitarians are not one group.

Is this true? Are there different groups of trinitarians that all have different trinity doctrines?

[JehovahsWitness]

They say there is one but in reality there are many .... Yes, the whole lot gives me a headache.

• Orthodox Trinitarianism rejects monarchianism which believes in only one person (mono) and maintains that the Son and the Spirit subsists in the divine essence as impersonal attributes not distinct and divine Persons.

• Orthodox Trinitarianism rejects modalism which believes that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are different names for the same God acting in different roles or manifestations (like the well-intentioned but misguided “water, vapor, ice” analogy).

• Orthodox Trinitarianism rejects Arianism which denies the full deity of Christ.
  And finally, orthodox Trinitarianism rejects all forms of tri-theism, which teach that the three members of the Godhead are, to quote a leading Mormon apologist, “three distinct Beings, three separate Gods.”

Source: thegospelcoalition.org

1 CORINTHIANS 14:33

For God is not a God of disorder, but of peace--as in all the churches of the saints

[2timothy316]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #2]

Keeping up with them is a headache. I think the bigger headache it seems to me is defending them.

[Eloi]

The word "trinity" only implies a human idea.

An idea is just that ... and this specific idea is very ambiguous and therefore open to any interpretation by anyone who thinks that he explains it better than the previous ones.

Those who invented the idea could never explain it and called it a "mystery", since the Bible does not contain it at all ... so, it is still an invention to which anyone can add any other detail that occurs to them to infinity and beyond.

In the Scriptures it is explicitly stated that those who are going to be saved are required to come to know God and his Son (John 17:3). The idea of a mystery involving a god that can never be understood is totally opposed to God's purpose.

As I see this, for trinitarians there is no person who can be called SUPREME GOD, since the trinity is only an idea that can describe a set of elements united by an I don't know what, which is what they never manage to define.

Since in the Scriptures Jehovah and Jesus are totally and clearly identified, the trinity is absolutely opposed to the Scriptures and closest to a special agnosticism or mysticism, never related to Jehovah and his Son ... or to the Bible.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to Eloi in post #4]

I find it very interesting that none of the trinitarians that frequent this forum want to answer the OP question.

While when a thread comes up about JWs' beliefs coming under fire, all of them show up.

Very revealing about this doctrine that it seems the support for it is conditional. Ask them how many versions of the trinity doctrine are there...**Crickets**

[Eloi]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #5]
If some protestant defends that doctrine, most probably will use Catholic references about it, or some diferent personal ocurrences that they may claim gave them the holy spirit that they say to have and that gives them certain particular illumination.

What is certain is that none of the variants can stand up in light of the Biblical citations that we Jehovah's Witnesses know so well and often cite to them for careful analysis... although they blatantly deny them and continue to expose all their own manmade ideas and biblically untenable theories.

At the end, what are they trying to confuse that is not easy to understand:

1) GOD, the Father of all
2) Jesus, the Son of GOD the Father of all
3) the spirit of GOD the Father of all.

There are not three in one god, there is One God, his Son and his holy spirit ... very easy to understand.

[bjs1]

Trinitarians are not one group.

Is this true? Are there different groups of trinitarians that all have different trinity doctrines?

Tam’s point seems to be that people who disagree about a wide variety of lesser issues can still agree on the doctrine of the Trinity. This does not mean that they have different doctrines of the Trinity.

Just as Jehovah’s Witnesses do not have to agree on every point of doctrine, orthodox Christians can agree on Trinity while disagreeing on other points of doctrine.

The word “trinity” can be applied to many different ideas, but the Christian doctrine of the trinity is that there is one God who exists in three persons. I cannot speak to idiosyncratic beliefs, but roughly 98% of self-described Christians identify as part of a group that holds to this definition of the trinity.

[JehovahsWitness]

The word “trinity” can be applied to many different ideas, but the Christian doctrine of the trinity is that there is one God who exists in three persons.

This seems a fair statement; since trinitarians don't go out door-to-door and talk to other trinitarians, they dont get to hear how their official teaching gets translated in the heads of the membership. I suppose its fair to say there is a "orthodox" trinitarianism and a million non-orthodox beliefs about how to make that paricular dogma work. Since I have never met anyone that identifies as a trinitarian that doesn't believe that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are different names for the same God , I'm beginning to wonder if Ive ever met an orthodox trinitarian at all.

[2timothy316]

The word “trinity” can be applied to many different ideas, but the Christian doctrine of the trinity is that there is one God who exists in three persons.

This seems a fair statement; since trinitarians don't go out door-to-door and talk to other trinitarians, they dont get to hear how their official teaching gets translated in the heads of the membership. I suppose its fair to say there is a "orthodox" trinitarianism and a million non-orthodox beliefs about how to make that paricular dogma work. Since I have never met anyone that identifies as a trinitarian that doesn't believe that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are different names for the same God , I'm beginning to wonder if Ive ever met an orthodox trinitarian at all.

Well, then that is a major nail in the coffin of the trinity doctrine if no one can describe what it is. I'll certainly bookmark that post where a trinitarian said Jesus is the Father because that just put the doctrine into a tailspin. Can we even put the word 'the' in front of trinity anymore? Perhaps an 'a' is more accurate. Or perhaps 'this'.

[Eloi]

In the reality God is not an idea; men cannot invent him nor bring the idea to a brainstorm event to deduce how he could be. No one can bring him to a lab either, so no, those are not ways to know God. We need to look for Him, search for Him, to check how He revealed Himself and learn from it. He gave us two things to know Him: the Bible and His creation.

He is real, a living being who is over everything in the Universe he created. We cannot see Him, but we can know Him and even have a personal relationship with Him.

About Him Jesus said:

John 7:28 (...) “You know me and you know where I am from. And I have not come of my own initiative, but the One who sent me is real, and you do not know him. 29 I know him, because I am a representative from him, and that One sent me.”
... 8:54 (...) “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, the one who you say is your God. 55 Yet you have not known him, but I know him. And if I said I do not know him, I would be like you, a liar. But I do know him and am observing his word...."

But any trinity people may talk about is an idea ... not God.