Resurrection after three days? What?

[oldbadger]

Can somebody just gently guide me through the timeline of the death of Jesus to his claimed resurrection ?
Three days? That's junk! A Friday evening to a Sunday morning looks more like 1.5 days to me.

Anybody who wants to use the Jewish 24hr cycle needs to stick with that clock throughout their guidance.
Anybody who uses the Modern 24 cycle might stick with that, please. No ducking and diving from one to t'other.

[TRANSPONDER]

Can somebody just gently guide me through the timeline of the death of Jesus to his claimed resurrection ?
Three days? That's junk! A Friday evening to a Sunday morning looks more like 1.5 days to me.
...

Good thing is that Bible doesn't tell it was Friday when Jesus was murdered.

By what I see, there is two options, Jesus died on Wednesday or Thursday. I think Wednesday is the correct.

In this it is good first to notice, Jewish day changes at 21:00.

Wednesday 14:
- At the beginning of that day Jesus ate the Passover meal. (After Tuesday 21:00).
- Praying on park after meal.
- Captured at 3:00
- Judgment at 6:00
- Darkness at 12:00
- Death at 15:00
- Burial before 21:00
Thursday 15, the feast of unleavened bread, also a Shabbat day:
- No work was done.
Friday 16, Preparation day for weekly Shabbat:
- Women prepared the things that they were going to take to the tomb at the first day of the week.
Saturday 17, weekly Shabbat:
- people rested.
Sunday 18, first day of the week:
- People found the empty tomb. Jesus was already risen.

I don't follow that at all.

The priests would not enter the Praetorium at the day of the trial because it was the preparation....

Please tell, for what do you mean the preparation was?

The day of preparation (when work could be done) for the Sabbath (Saturday), which places the Trial on the Friday...

It was not the preparation day for weekly Shabbat, but for the Shabbat day that is the feast of unleavened bread, 15th day of the month. That is why it was not Friday.

Not according to the gospels, The resurrection was the first day of the week - Sunday according to the Jewish reckoning. That makes to fullday when Jesus was in the tomb the Saturday and Luke says they rested as it was the Sabbath. Thus the preparation day (for the Sabbath (1) was Friday, when the trial and crucifixion happened. The Last supper thus being on the Thursday. I think it must pan out that way.
I get your point that 15th Nisan sounds like Monday, and maybe we could look into whether that's the Passover Seder or the week of Passover starting.

(1) and it seems the Passover that the priests hadn't yet eaten was the Saturday, Sabbath and Passover coinciding - the Friday being the killing of the lambs as the sacrifice of Jesus would imply.

[1213]

Not according to the gospels, The resurrection was the first day of the week - Sunday according to the Jewish reckoning. That makes to fullday when Jesus was in the tomb the Saturday and Luke says they rested as it was the Sabbath. ...

The Gospels say the tomb was empty Sunday morning. It is possible Jesus had left the tomb before Sunday. And there is nothing in the scriptures that supports the idea that Jesus died Friday. Only thing that supports it, is the misunderstanding that the preparation day was for weekly Shabbat.

[JehovahsWitness]

Not according to the gospels, The resurrection was the first day of the week - Sunday according to the Jewish reckoning. That makes to fullday when Jesus was in the tomb the Saturday and Luke says they rested as it was the Sabbath. ...

The Gospels say the tomb was empty Sunday morning. It is possible Jesus had left the tomb before Sunday. And there is nothing in the scriptures that supports the idea that Jesus died Friday. Only thing that supports it, is the misunderstanding that the preparation day was for weekly Shabbat.

No, the idea comes from the women arriving at the empty tomb on "the first day of the week" ; the first day of the week was always the day after the sabbath which was "friday" night through "saturday" night.

[Eloi]

Some other points about this topic from another subforum:

With the development of events since Jesus' death in the afternoon, to the visit of the women to the tomb early in the morning on the first day of the week, Sunday, we can see that Jesus was three days (not 72 hours) dead. If Jesus died Friday, the third day is Sunday at any hour.

Friday 3.00 pm: Jesus died and is sepulted before the holy day.
Saturday: Nobody can go to see the body cause is holy day.
Sunday, early in the morning: women go the first time to see the body.

Disregarding the supposed literalness of the prophetic expression related to Jonah and mentioned only once in the entire NT (Matt. 12:39,40), we can see that the phrase on the third day is mentioned several times with reference to when Jesus would be resurrected; some are: Matt. 16:21; 17:23; 27:63; Luke 24:7,46.

(...) what Jesus meant with the third day (...) :

Luke 13:32 And he said to them: “Go and tell that fox, ‘Look! I am casting out demons and accomplishing healing today and tomorrow, and the third day I shall be finished.’

When Jesus appeared to some of his disciples the same day he was raised from the dead, they told him:

Luke 24:21 (...)
καὶ σὺν πᾶσιν τούτοις __ and besides all these things
τρίτην ταύτην ἡμέραν ἄγει __ this third day is running
ἀφʼ οὗ ταῦτα ἐγένετο __ since these things occurred.

So, when 'those things occurred' was the first day. (...)

[TRANSPONDER]

Not according to the gospels, The resurrection was the first day of the week - Sunday according to the Jewish reckoning. That makes to fullday when Jesus was in the tomb the Saturday and Luke says they rested as it was the Sabbath. ...

The Gospels say the tomb was empty Sunday morning. It is possible Jesus had left the tomb before Sunday. And there is nothing in the scriptures that supports the idea that Jesus died Friday. Only thing that supports it, is the misunderstanding that the preparation day was for weekly Shabbat.

If the women arrived Sunday After the dark half of the Sunday, and the day before was Saturday Sabbath then the day that was expiring at evening the start of Saturday when Jesus was put in the tomb had to be Friday, xo Jesus expired on the Friday. I don't see how the Bible does anything other than support that, whether Jesus was in the tomb all through Saturday or not.

John says the preparation was on the Friday and the Sabbath was on the Saturday. Whether or noi the priests had yet to eat the Passover Saturday or later doesn't alter that. Please explain how it does.

Not according to the gospels, The resurrection was the first day of the week - Sunday according to the Jewish reckoning. That makes to fullday when Jesus was in the tomb the Saturday and Luke says they rested as it was the Sabbath. ...

The Gospels say the tomb was empty Sunday morning. It is possible Jesus had left the tomb before Sunday. And there is nothing in the scriptures that supports the idea that Jesus died Friday. Only thing that supports it, is the misunderstanding that the preparation day was for weekly Shabbat.

No, the idea comes from the women arriving at the empty tomb on "the first day of the week" ; the first day of the week was always the day after the sabbath which was "friday" night through "saturday" night.

Let me see....Sunday first day of the week was half way through when it was dawn and the women arrived at the tomb, Sunday had begun when it got dark even though today we start the new day at midnight.

So the day before was Saturday Sabbath when Luke says they rested. That started agt twilight when Friday ended and Jesus was shovelled in the tomb. I see no way you can make the Sabbath Friday night through Saturday unless you drag modern western timing into it, which is surely cheating unless you make a case with Greco - Roman reckoning which, I recall from a discussion years ago, matched the Jewish anyway.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to Eloi in post #34]


Yes. Luke citing Cleophas refers to the things (about the crucifixion) was on the first of the three days (not the first day of the Jewish week, which was Sunday) the second day after 'these things' was Saturday, sabbath. The third day was the day that Cleophas was talking, Sunday when Jesus had resurrected.

It is a case of Crucifixion to resurrection was over three days, but did not add up to three full days, but the point is taken that one can refer to part of a day in the context. I think it is a bit of a quibble to ay that on the third day doesn't mean it has to be a period of three full days. Though I do sometimes point out that it was 31 or so total death to resurrection.

[oldbadger]

[Replying to Eloi in post #34]


Yes. Luke citing Cleophas refers to the things (about the crucifixion) was on the first of the three days (not the first day of the Jewish week, which was Sunday) the second day after 'these things' was Saturday, sabbath. The third day was the day that Cleophas was talking, Sunday when Jesus had resurrected.

It is a case of Crucifixion to resurrection was over three days, but did not add up to three full days, but the point is taken that one can refer to part of a day in the context. I think it is a bit of a quibble to ay that on the third day doesn't mean it has to be a period of three full days. Though I do sometimes point out that it was 31 or so total death to resurrection.

Death to resurrection? That's the thing, it's much more plausible to propose that Jesus actually lived and recovered enough to be got away in circa 32 hours. All the evidence supports this, he was even seen by his friends not long after, up by Gennesaret. The Cornish people have a tradition that he went there, even founded the first church.

Well, hundreds of millions of people actually believe that he survived, same as me, so I'm not a loner in this.

[1213]

...
John says the preparation was on the Friday and the Sabbath was on the Saturday....

John doesn't say it was Friday.

[TRANSPONDER]

...
John says the preparation was on the Friday and the Sabbath was on the Saturday....

John doesn't say it was Friday.

He doesn't say it was dark at noon so do you then claim it wasn't?

[Replying to Eloi in post #34]


Yes. Luke citing Cleophas refers to the things (about the crucifixion) was on the first of the three days (not the first day of the Jewish week, which was Sunday) the second day after 'these things' was Saturday, sabbath. The third day was the day that Cleophas was talking, Sunday when Jesus had resurrected.

It is a case of Crucifixion to resurrection was over three days, but did not add up to three full days, but the point is taken that one can refer to part of a day in the context. I think it is a bit of a quibble to ay that on the third day doesn't mean it has to be a period of three full days. Though I do sometimes point out that it was 31 or so total death to resurrection.

Death to resurrection? That's the thing, it's much more plausible to propose that Jesus actually lived and recovered enough to be got away in circa 32 hours. All the evidence supports this, he was even seen by his friends not long after, up by Gennesaret. The Cornish people have a tradition that he went there, even founded the first church.

Well, hundreds of millions of people actually believe that he survived, same as me, so I'm not a loner in this.

I do think that is what the evidence actually indicates IF we take the Gospel record (suitably cherry -picked, edited and interwoven) as reliable. And though I doubt the resurrection accounts entirely, I am prepared to entertain a basic true story in the crucifixion which is the place of all the skulduggery. So that aside, I'm talking what the gospels say or claim or there's no point in talking. But take it as read that I mean 'supposed death to claimed resurrection'. And the Three days or just 'the third day'is truly minor point in the debate, and, if I were a suspicious and distrustful curmugeon rather than the cherubic plaster saint which is wot I yam, I might see it as a Bible apologetics ploy to make a Big Fat deal out of nothing to fool the atheists into thinking it's a biggie, knock them down pretty easily and suppose that discredits any other arguments the doubters and skeptics may try to present. I'm too suspicious for my own good, that's what.

[oldbadger]

I doubt the resurrection accounts entirely, I am prepared to entertain a basic true story in the crucifixion which is the place of all the skulduggery. So that aside, I'm talking what the gospels say or claim or there's no point in talking. But take it as read that I mean 'supposed death to claimed resurrection'. And the Three days or just 'the third day'is truly minor point in the debate, and, if I were a suspicious and distrustful curmugeon rather than the cherubic plaster saint which is wot I yam, I might see it as a Bible apologetics ploy to make a Big Fat deal out of nothing to fool the atheists into thinking it's a biggie, knock them down pretty easily and suppose that discredits any other arguments the doubters and skeptics may try to present. I'm too suspicious for my own good, that's what.

But I don't think that you have to talk to Christians on the basis of their ideas, beliefs and interpretations.
No......... Their concept of a God who built the entire universe just so that he could concentrate on this little planet and a recent species of creatures that look like him, and that he came to live here as one of that species and get executed so that he could amazingly pop in to view afterwards........ is so head bangingly strange that I don't think that I need to discuss the bible on their terms at all.......... rather to discuss it as a bundle of books written by various folks at different times who mostly did not think like Christians of today.... at all.

We can all be superstitious but how that belief got started and grew is just stunningly amazing.