Should ALL Christians eat and drink the emblems of Jesus?

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Eloi
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Should ALL Christians eat and drink the emblems of Jesus?

Post #1

Post by Eloi »

That's this topic about: Should ALL Christians partake of the symbols of Christ?

First idea: To whom did Christ tell that he was making a covenant with, so they will be kings and judges?

Luke 22:24 However, there also arose a heated dispute among them over which one of them was considered to be the greatest. 25 But he said to them: “The kings of the nations lord it over them, and those having authority over them are called Benefactors. 26 You, though, are not to be that way. But let the one who is the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the one taking the lead as the one ministering. 27 For which one is greater, the one dining or the one serving? Is it not the one dining? But I am among you as the one serving.
28 “However, you are the ones who have stuck with me in my trials; 29 and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel.

Second idea: If during the great tribulation Jesus separates sheep from goats according to what humans did to their brothers, who would be his brothers, and who would be the sheep selected for having treated them well? (Matt. 25:31-46).

Matt. 25:31 “When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. 35 For I became hungry and you gave me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you received me hospitably; 36 naked and you clothed me. I fell sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you visited me.’ 37 Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ ...

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Re: Should ALL Christians eat and drink the emblems of Jesus?

Post #31

Post by Eloi »

onewithhim wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 2:45 pm
tam wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 12:30 am Peace to you,
Eloi wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:32 pm Independent Christians take to themselves everything Jesus said to his apostles.


In other words, Christians obey Christ and follow His commands and example. (a Christian is dependent upon Christ, so there is no such thing as an 'independent' Christian.)
There are self-described Christians who do not follow the Bible's guidance to meet together (Hebrews 10:25), and think that they are following Christ and that that makes them a true follower of Christ. Independent Christians suffer from their delusions that they can somehow be followers of Christ if they just "listen" to him, independently. They argue for consuming the emblems at the Memorial and yet do not follow the clear message at Hebrews 10:25.

Jesus always went to the synagogue and the early Christians met in peoples' homes. There has always been an organization of Christians. And why would Jehovah have an organization with the people of Israel back in the day, and yet not have one today with Christians---his special people now?
Some of them do, ironically. They are fighting against religions (especially against JWs, their nemesis), but with the only purpose of installing or propagating their own religion ... They don't say any name of their denominations and this is how they pretend that their rejection of religions is sincere ... but in the real life it is very far from it. Actually, most of what they do is trying to copy us, JWs, ... but they totally fail for obvious reasons:

Luke 11:23 Whoever is not on my side is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.

Jesus is not with imposters (Matt. 28:19,20).

John 15:1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the cultivator. 2 He takes away every branch in me not bearing fruit, and he cleans every one bearing fruit, so that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in union with me, and I will remain in union with you. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you unless you remain in union with me. 5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever remains in union with me and I in union with him, this one bears much fruit; for apart from me you can do nothing at all. 6 If anyone does not remain in union with me, he is thrown out like a branch and dries up. And men gather those branches and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you remain in union with me and my sayings remain in you, ask whatever you wish and it will take place for you. 8 My Father is glorified in this, that you keep bearing much fruit and prove yourselves my disciples. 9 Just as the Father has loved me, so I have loved you; remain in my love. 10 If you observe my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have observed the commandments of the Father and remain in his love.

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Re: Should ALL Christians eat and drink the emblems of Jesus?

Post #32

Post by tam »

Peace again to you,
Eloi wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 4:53 pm
onewithhim wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 2:45 pm
tam wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 12:30 am Peace to you,
Eloi wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:32 pm Independent Christians take to themselves everything Jesus said to his apostles.


In other words, Christians obey Christ and follow His commands and example. (a Christian is dependent upon Christ, so there is no such thing as an 'independent' Christian.)
There are self-described Christians who do not follow the Bible's guidance to meet together (Hebrews 10:25), and think that they are following Christ and that that makes them a true follower of Christ. Independent Christians suffer from their delusions that they can somehow be followers of Christ if they just "listen" to him, independently. They argue for consuming the emblems at the Memorial and yet do not follow the clear message at Hebrews 10:25.

Jesus always went to the synagogue and the early Christians met in peoples' homes. There has always been an organization of Christians. And why would Jehovah have an organization with the people of Israel back in the day, and yet not have one today with Christians---his special people now?
Some of them do, ironically. They are fighting against religions (especially against JWs, their nemesis), but with the only purpose of installing or propagating their own religion ...
You appear to be describing the actions of your own religion (and perhaps also yourself).

Your religion has fought against all other religions for the purpose of propagating itself, has it not?





I do not do these things. I do not point to myself. I do not tell people to listen to me. I point to Christ. His servants are HIS witnesses. HE is HIMSELF the true and faithful witness of His Father (JAH). And the Father Himself is the One who said that we are to listen to His Son. I have only repeated this command for others to see for themselves who is is the Father wants us to listen TO.



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Re: Should ALL Christians eat and drink the emblems of Jesus?

Post #33

Post by onewithhim »

tam wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 3:57 pm Peace to you,

First... assuming that these "independent Christians" (a title that you are incorrectly using to describe me) are wrong about something, this does NOT mean that you are right about not eating and drinking. Pointing out a wrong (or potential wrong) in someone else does not correct the wrong (or potential wrong) in yourself. It is just an attempt to deflect from your own wrong.
I wouldn't "attempt to deflect from my own wrong" because I am not wrong, so why would I try to "deflect" anything? I am simply pointing out what the Scriptures say. Instead of conceding that I may have a point, you go ahead with JW-bashing, if you will, to deflect from YOUR wrong.

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Re: Should ALL Christians eat and drink the emblems of Jesus?

Post #34

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
onewithhim wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:24 pm
tam wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 3:57 pm Peace to you,

First... assuming that these "independent Christians" (a title that you are incorrectly using to describe me) are wrong about something, this does NOT mean that you are right about not eating and drinking. Pointing out a wrong (or potential wrong) in someone else does not correct the wrong (or potential wrong) in yourself. It is just an attempt to deflect from your own wrong.
I wouldn't "attempt to deflect from my own wrong" because I am not wrong, so why would I try to "deflect" anything? I am simply pointing out what the Scriptures say. Instead of conceding that I may have a point, you go ahead with JW-bashing, if you will, to deflect from YOUR wrong.
And what wrong was that, owh?

(not that I accept your term 'jw-bashing')


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Re: Should ALL Christians eat and drink the emblems of Jesus?

Post #35

Post by onewithhim »

tam wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:55 pm Peace to you,
onewithhim wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:24 pm
tam wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 3:57 pm Peace to you,

First... assuming that these "independent Christians" (a title that you are incorrectly using to describe me) are wrong about something, this does NOT mean that you are right about not eating and drinking. Pointing out a wrong (or potential wrong) in someone else does not correct the wrong (or potential wrong) in yourself. It is just an attempt to deflect from your own wrong.
I wouldn't "attempt to deflect from my own wrong" because I am not wrong, so why would I try to "deflect" anything? I am simply pointing out what the Scriptures say. Instead of conceding that I may have a point, you go ahead with JW-bashing, if you will, to deflect from YOUR wrong.
And what wrong was that, owh?
We've been discussing it for a while now. I've made clear what I believe you are wrong about. To reiterate would be actually a waste of time, trying to go back to the previous posts to show you exactly where I said what I said, etc. As I think I said at one point----we'll have to agree to disagree. Let's stop throwing jabs at each other.

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Re: Should ALL Christians eat and drink the emblems of Jesus?

Post #36

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
onewithhim wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:49 pm
tam wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:55 pm Peace to you,
onewithhim wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:24 pm
tam wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 3:57 pm Peace to you,

First... assuming that these "independent Christians" (a title that you are incorrectly using to describe me) are wrong about something, this does NOT mean that you are right about not eating and drinking. Pointing out a wrong (or potential wrong) in someone else does not correct the wrong (or potential wrong) in yourself. It is just an attempt to deflect from your own wrong.
I wouldn't "attempt to deflect from my own wrong" because I am not wrong, so why would I try to "deflect" anything? I am simply pointing out what the Scriptures say. Instead of conceding that I may have a point, you go ahead with JW-bashing, if you will, to deflect from YOUR wrong.
And what wrong was that, owh?
We've been discussing it for a while now. I've made clear what I believe you are wrong about.
I see. So I am JW bashing if I point out a contradiction from your religion in relation to the words and commands of Christ, but you (all) are not 'catholic' bashing if you point out errors from their religion? I am JW bashing if I disagree with jws, explain why, and provide scriptural backing for what Christ commanded? But you (all) are not bashing me when you tell me I am wrong (without ever once showing where I have contradicted Christ or where I have disobeyed Him), along with all manner of other things being said about my person or my faith?
To reiterate would be actually a waste of time, trying to go back to the previous posts to show you exactly where I said what I said, etc.
As I think I said at one point----we'll have to agree to disagree. Let's stop throwing jabs at each other.
I do not recall throwing any jabs at you. To the rest, you and I have agreed to disagree on things in the past, and I have no problem with that, but what matters is holding all things up to Christ; if something agrees with HIM and HIS words and HIS commands and HIS example. He is the One who is the Truth; the One to whom the Father has said to LISTEN.


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Re: Should ALL Christians eat and drink the emblems of Jesus?

Post #37

Post by onewithhim »

tam wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:18 am Peace to you,
onewithhim wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:49 pm
tam wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:55 pm Peace to you,
onewithhim wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:24 pm
tam wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 3:57 pm Peace to you,

First... assuming that these "independent Christians" (a title that you are incorrectly using to describe me) are wrong about something, this does NOT mean that you are right about not eating and drinking. Pointing out a wrong (or potential wrong) in someone else does not correct the wrong (or potential wrong) in yourself. It is just an attempt to deflect from your own wrong.
I wouldn't "attempt to deflect from my own wrong" because I am not wrong, so why would I try to "deflect" anything? I am simply pointing out what the Scriptures say. Instead of conceding that I may have a point, you go ahead with JW-bashing, if you will, to deflect from YOUR wrong.
And what wrong was that, owh?
We've been discussing it for a while now. I've made clear what I believe you are wrong about.
I see. So I am JW bashing if I point out a contradiction from your religion in relation to the words and commands of Christ, but you (all) are not 'catholic' bashing if you point out errors from their religion? I am JW bashing if I disagree with jws, explain why, and provide scriptural backing for what Christ commanded? But you (all) are not bashing me when you tell me I am wrong (without ever once showing where I have contradicted Christ or where I have disobeyed Him), along with all manner of other things being said about my person or my faith?
I and others have shown you where you have contradicted Christ, over and again. You don't want to see it. It's all because you neglect to agree that there are two groups with different destinies. It is clear that there are two groups, under one Shepherd. (John 10:16; Revelation 7:9,14) Yet you don't see two groups. Why is that? Christ himself said there are two groups, as you can see if you looked up the scriptures I cited here.

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Re: Should ALL Christians eat and drink the emblems of Jesus?

Post #38

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
onewithhim wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:13 pm
tam wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:18 am Peace to you,
onewithhim wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:49 pm
tam wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:55 pm Peace to you,
onewithhim wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:24 pm
tam wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 3:57 pm Peace to you,

First... assuming that these "independent Christians" (a title that you are incorrectly using to describe me) are wrong about something, this does NOT mean that you are right about not eating and drinking. Pointing out a wrong (or potential wrong) in someone else does not correct the wrong (or potential wrong) in yourself. It is just an attempt to deflect from your own wrong.
I wouldn't "attempt to deflect from my own wrong" because I am not wrong, so why would I try to "deflect" anything? I am simply pointing out what the Scriptures say. Instead of conceding that I may have a point, you go ahead with JW-bashing, if you will, to deflect from YOUR wrong.
And what wrong was that, owh?
We've been discussing it for a while now. I've made clear what I believe you are wrong about.
I see. So I am JW bashing if I point out a contradiction from your religion in relation to the words and commands of Christ, but you (all) are not 'catholic' bashing if you point out errors from their religion? I am JW bashing if I disagree with jws, explain why, and provide scriptural backing for what Christ commanded? But you (all) are not bashing me when you tell me I am wrong (without ever once showing where I have contradicted Christ or where I have disobeyed Him), along with all manner of other things being said about my person or my faith?
I and others have shown you where you have contradicted Christ, over and again.


First: You have not. If you had, it would be easy to simply state it. Look tam, Christ said "a" and you are saying "b", and these two things contradict. Perhaps you find it too much work to go back and show where I have contradicted Christ... simply because I have not contradicted Him. I can state simply where your religion contradicts Christ and have done so throughout this thread (and a few others). Christ said that anyone may eat and drink - your religion says that only a select few Christians may do so. Christ said that the apostles were to teach the disciples to obey every command that He gave them (the apostles - one such command is to eat and to drink and keep doing that in remembrance of Him)... and your religion teaches that most should NOT obey this command. Kjw even started a thread stating that 'those taking the lead' must teach the disciples to obey every single command of Christ... despite not seeing that it is his/her own religion that teaches its adherents NOT to obey every single command of Christ.

Second: are you sure you are not doing the same thing that you have said others are doing on at least one of your "[Jesus] is not God" threads. People keep responding with scriptures they believe prove the trinity instead of directly addressing the verses you supplied in your OP.


Third: Are you withdrawing your 'jw bashing' accusation or are you conceding that jws do the same thing?
You don't want to see it. It's all because you neglect to agree that there are two groups with different destinies.
I cannot agree with something that Christ does not teach. The apostles did not teach this either. Even the bible does not teach it. There is no such thing (or teaching) from any of them as two Christians groups with different destinies.
It is clear that there are two groups, under one Shepherd. (John 10:16; Revelation 7:9,14)


I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. John 10:16

After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. Revelation 7:9


First: What in those verses states that there are two groups with two different destinies under one shepherd? I can see that it describes many sheep who would be called as having different origins (from every tribe, nation, people, language, 'sheep pens')... but all listening to the voice of Christ and becoming one flock with one shepherd. Nothing in there at all of 'different destinies'.

Second: the apostles heard these words themselves did they not? The disciples knew about these words themselves, did they not? Yet there was no such teaching as the wts 'two groups of Christians with two different destinies' doctrine. It appears that, like me, none of the apostles 'saw' what your religion is teaching. Because NO ONE taught or even hinted at what your religion teaches, despite knowing these words and verses. On the contrary, everything from the apostles and from Paul are of Christians being ONE flock (one group), under ONE Shepherd, with ONE hope. Everyone ate and drank. The command from Christ to His apostles was to make disciples and teach them to obey every single command that Christ had given them (the apostles).

It is not that I cannot see what is written - you might want to consider (and take to Christ) that some are seeing what their religion has trained them to see. Because some are looking to religion instead of to Christ. The same as a Catholic may see the trinity because that is what their eyes have been trained to see by their religion.


Third: One group; two groups; three groups; four... this is all just a big distraction in the first place. Christ said that ANYONE can eat, that UNLESS one eats his flesh and drinks His blood, one has no life in them. Anyone does NOT mean 'some'; anyone does not mean 'only this group but not the other group'. Anyone means anyone. Christ also commanded the apostles to teach the disciples to obey everything that He commanded THEM. One of those commands is to eat His flesh and drink His blood, and to KEEP doing this in remembrance of me.

Yet you don't see two groups. Why is that?


1 - Because there is nothing that speaks of two groups in that verse, but rather only of different places that Christians would come from. Christ spoke of more that He had yet to call, but who would ALSO listen to His voice and become ONE FLOCK. (Please note just whose voice they would be listening TO.)

2 - Because everything written in the NT speaks of all Christians being the Church, members of the Body of Christ, with one hope. NO ONE taught that there is a second class/group of Christians who would NOT be the brothers of Christ or the Body of Christ or the Church or the Bride.

There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism.


One body, one faith, one hope, one flock.


NO one went around telling people that they could NOT be part of the Body of Christ or His brothers or His church.


Christ himself said there are two groups, as you can see if you looked up the scriptures I cited here.

As you can see, I did look them up (I always do, just in case I have missed anything, but also because the verses so rarely support what is being claimed). Christ said nothing about two groups of Christians, some being His brothers not, some being His Body and others not, some being His Church and others not, each having different destinies. He spoke of different origins of Christians (more than just two). But He never taught what your religion teaches. Neither did the apostles, nor Paul, nor anyone in what is written.

Why does that not raise a big red flag for you? Especially when the wts uses their doctrine to keep people FROM doing one of the things that Christ commanded: eat His flesh and drink His blood?




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Re: Should ALL Christians eat and drink the emblems of Jesus?

Post #39

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to tam in post #38]

I stand by everything I have posted. Fare well.

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Re: Should ALL Christians eat and drink the emblems of Jesus?

Post #40

Post by boatsnguitars »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 2:12 am In my experience most Christians think you should drink the wine if you love Jesus and not drink it if you dont.
I guess alcoholics aren't allowed to Love Jesus if they're trying to stop drinking....
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm

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