Should ALL Christians eat and drink the emblems of Jesus?

[Eloi]

That's this topic about: Should ALL Christians partake of the symbols of Christ?

First idea: To whom did Christ tell that he was making a covenant with, so they will be kings and judges?

Luke 22:24 However, there also arose a heated dispute among them over which one of them was considered to be the greatest. 25 But he said to them: “The kings of the nations lord it over them, and those having authority over them are called Benefactors. 26 You, though, are not to be that way. But let the one who is the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the one taking the lead as the one ministering. 27 For which one is greater, the one dining or the one serving? Is it not the one dining? But I am among you as the one serving.
28 “However, you are the ones who have stuck with me in my trials; 29 and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel.

Second idea: If during the great tribulation Jesus separates sheep from goats according to what humans did to their brothers, who would be his brothers, and who would be the sheep selected for having treated them well? (Matt. 25:31-46).

Matt. 25:31 “When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. 35 For I became hungry and you gave me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you received me hospitably; 36 naked and you clothed me. I fell sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you visited me.’ 37 Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ ...

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

In my experience most Christians think you should drink the wine if you love Jesus and not drink it if you dont.

I guess alcoholics aren't allowed to Love Jesus if they're trying to stop drinking....

Grape juice would be just as fine. Wine is made from grapes after all, and grapes are a fruit of the vine. Nor does it matter if it is red wine or white wine (and so it would not matter if it was white grape juice or purple grape juice). I mean, if you were in a situation and you had nothing at all except water, then just use the water. God and His Son are not that exacting. The fact that you are doing as Christ commanded with whatever you have is what matters. That is what shows your love and your faith.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ Jaheshua,
tammy

So God has the power to turn water into wine, but not stop alcoholism when a person drinks in honor of God? Why doesn't God turn the wine back into water for them?

This does not make sense. Your original complaint was that an alcoholic who was trying to stop drinking could not partake if they loved [Jesus]. But an alcoholic (or a child) could drink non-fermented grapes (grape juice), or even water (if that is all they had). So what reason do you have to complain now? That someone is an alcoholic to begin with?

Let me guess, that would be evidence that God existed and we can't have that....

Turning wine into water or water into wine would be evidence of a miracle, sure. But if someone wants to eat and drink out of love for Christ, then they already have faith in Him to begin with (who loves someone they do not think exists?) But if someone does not believe God or His Son exists in the first place, then what motivation do they have to eat or drink to begin with?


Your comment just seems completely disjointed from your original comment. I am glad for your original comment though, so thank you! Because there must be some for whom this IS a concern, some wanting to say yes to Christ, to eat and drink of Him... but uncertain if they could still do so if they cannot drink alcohol.

So again, thank you - truly - for your question!


**

To anyone listening,


Some want to make it harder for others to come to Christ, shutting the door to those who want to say "YES" to Him, to enter into the Kingdom of heaven. Not just Christ, but also the apostles spoke against doing that. (Matt 23:13; Acts 15:9)



Peace again to you, and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Eloi]

Although nearly 20,000 modern Jehovah's Witnesses believe that they have been called by God in the hope of reigning with Jesus in heaven, millions of Jehovah's Witnesses who do not have that hope happily serve Jehovah, considering that their hope of living on earth forever is a great hope that will fully meet their expectations regarding the kingdom of God: an earthly paradise where there will be no sickness, pain, or death, and all evil people will have ceased to exist.

Rev. 21:3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

To despise and belittle the hope of the kingdom as an earthly subject, as if it were something despicable, is a rejection of the promises of God that he has been giving since ancient times to his servants. It is disrespectful to Jehovah.

[boatsnguitars]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

In my experience most Christians think you should drink the wine if you love Jesus and not drink it if you dont.

I guess alcoholics aren't allowed to Love Jesus if they're trying to stop drinking....

Grape juice would be just as fine. Wine is made from grapes after all, and grapes are a fruit of the vine. Nor does it matter if it is red wine or white wine (and so it would not matter if it was white grape juice or purple grape juice). I mean, if you were in a situation and you had nothing at all except water, then just use the water. God and His Son are not that exacting. The fact that you are doing as Christ commanded with whatever you have is what matters. That is what shows your love and your faith.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ Jaheshua,
tammy

So God has the power to turn water into wine, but not stop alcoholism when a person drinks in honor of God? Why doesn't God turn the wine back into water for them?

This does not make sense. Your original complaint was that an alcoholic who was trying to stop drinking could not partake if they loved [Jesus]. But an alcoholic (or a child) could drink non-fermented grapes (grape juice), or even water (if that is all they had). So what reason do you have to complain now? That someone is an alcoholic to begin with?

Let me guess, that would be evidence that God existed and we can't have that....

Turning wine into water or water into wine would be evidence of a miracle, sure. But if someone wants to eat and drink out of love for Christ, then they already have faith in Him to begin with (who loves someone they do not think exists?) But if someone does not believe God or His Son exists in the first place, then what motivation do they have to eat or drink to begin with?


Your comment just seems completely disjointed from your original comment. I am glad for your original comment though, so thank you! Because there must be some for whom this IS a concern, some wanting to say yes to Christ, to eat and drink of Him... but uncertain if they could still do so if they cannot drink alcohol.

So again, thank you - truly - for your question!


**

To anyone listening,


Some want to make it harder for others to come to Christ, shutting the door to those who want to say "YES" to Him, to enter into the Kingdom of heaven. Not just Christ, but also the apostles spoke against doing that. (Matt 23:13; Acts 15:9)



Peace again to you, and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

I note the constant moving of goalposts by the religious when they defend their Faith. Mormons, Muslims and Christians alike.

I don't think it's important that people drink alcohol to show their allegiance to someone, yet, that's what a Christians claimed. So, do you disagree that people need to drink alcohol to honor God?
OK.
Others disagree.
What does God say? Seriously, what is God's opinion on the matter?

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

In my experience most Christians think you should drink the wine if you love Jesus and not drink it if you dont.

I guess alcoholics aren't allowed to Love Jesus if they're trying to stop drinking....

Grape juice would be just as fine. Wine is made from grapes after all, and grapes are a fruit of the vine. Nor does it matter if it is red wine or white wine (and so it would not matter if it was white grape juice or purple grape juice). I mean, if you were in a situation and you had nothing at all except water, then just use the water. God and His Son are not that exacting. The fact that you are doing as Christ commanded with whatever you have is what matters. That is what shows your love and your faith.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ Jaheshua,
tammy

So God has the power to turn water into wine, but not stop alcoholism when a person drinks in honor of God? Why doesn't God turn the wine back into water for them?

This does not make sense. Your original complaint was that an alcoholic who was trying to stop drinking could not partake if they loved [Jesus]. But an alcoholic (or a child) could drink non-fermented grapes (grape juice), or even water (if that is all they had). So what reason do you have to complain now? That someone is an alcoholic to begin with?

Let me guess, that would be evidence that God existed and we can't have that....

Turning wine into water or water into wine would be evidence of a miracle, sure. But if someone wants to eat and drink out of love for Christ, then they already have faith in Him to begin with (who loves someone they do not think exists?) But if someone does not believe God or His Son exists in the first place, then what motivation do they have to eat or drink to begin with?


Your comment just seems completely disjointed from your original comment. I am glad for your original comment though, so thank you! Because there must be some for whom this IS a concern, some wanting to say yes to Christ, to eat and drink of Him... but uncertain if they could still do so if they cannot drink alcohol.

So again, thank you - truly - for your question!


**

To anyone listening,


Some want to make it harder for others to come to Christ, shutting the door to those who want to say "YES" to Him, to enter into the Kingdom of heaven. Not just Christ, but also the apostles spoke against doing that. (Matt 23:13; Acts 15:9)



Peace again to you, and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

I note the constant moving of goalposts by the religious when they defend their Faith. Mormons, Muslims and Christians alike.

I'm not sure if you are referring to me or not, but I moved no goalpost. I simply answered your concern about an alcoholic not wanting to drink alcohol.

I don't think it's important that people drink alcohol to show their allegiance to someone, yet, that's what a Christians claimed. So, do you disagree that people need to drink alcohol to honor God?
OK.
Others disagree.
What does God say? Seriously, what is God's opinion on the matter?

I did post what Christ said on the matter of eating and drinking the bread and wine that mean His flesh and blood.

My first post on this thread:

viewtopic.php?p=1114622#p1114622

There are subsequent posts as well.



Peace again to you.

[boatsnguitars]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

In my experience most Christians think you should drink the wine if you love Jesus and not drink it if you dont.

I guess alcoholics aren't allowed to Love Jesus if they're trying to stop drinking....

Grape juice would be just as fine. Wine is made from grapes after all, and grapes are a fruit of the vine. Nor does it matter if it is red wine or white wine (and so it would not matter if it was white grape juice or purple grape juice). I mean, if you were in a situation and you had nothing at all except water, then just use the water. God and His Son are not that exacting. The fact that you are doing as Christ commanded with whatever you have is what matters. That is what shows your love and your faith.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ Jaheshua,
tammy

So God has the power to turn water into wine, but not stop alcoholism when a person drinks in honor of God? Why doesn't God turn the wine back into water for them?

This does not make sense. Your original complaint was that an alcoholic who was trying to stop drinking could not partake if they loved [Jesus]. But an alcoholic (or a child) could drink non-fermented grapes (grape juice), or even water (if that is all they had). So what reason do you have to complain now? That someone is an alcoholic to begin with?

Let me guess, that would be evidence that God existed and we can't have that....

Turning wine into water or water into wine would be evidence of a miracle, sure. But if someone wants to eat and drink out of love for Christ, then they already have faith in Him to begin with (who loves someone they do not think exists?) But if someone does not believe God or His Son exists in the first place, then what motivation do they have to eat or drink to begin with?


Your comment just seems completely disjointed from your original comment. I am glad for your original comment though, so thank you! Because there must be some for whom this IS a concern, some wanting to say yes to Christ, to eat and drink of Him... but uncertain if they could still do so if they cannot drink alcohol.

So again, thank you - truly - for your question!


**

To anyone listening,


Some want to make it harder for others to come to Christ, shutting the door to those who want to say "YES" to Him, to enter into the Kingdom of heaven. Not just Christ, but also the apostles spoke against doing that. (Matt 23:13; Acts 15:9)



Peace again to you, and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

I note the constant moving of goalposts by the religious when they defend their Faith. Mormons, Muslims and Christians alike.

I'm not sure if you are referring to me or not, but I moved no goalpost. I simply answered your concern about an alcoholic not wanting to drink alcohol.

I don't think it's important that people drink alcohol to show their allegiance to someone, yet, that's what a Christians claimed. So, do you disagree that people need to drink alcohol to honor God?
OK.
Others disagree.
What does God say? Seriously, what is God's opinion on the matter?

I did post what Christ said on the matter of eating and drinking the bread and wine that mean His flesh and blood.

My first post on this thread:

viewtopic.php?p=1114622#p1114622

There are subsequent posts as well.



Peace again to you.

I'm curious: Why do Christians eat and drink the flesh and blood of a human sacrifice?

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

In my experience most Christians think you should drink the wine if you love Jesus and not drink it if you dont.

I guess alcoholics aren't allowed to Love Jesus if they're trying to stop drinking....

Grape juice would be just as fine. Wine is made from grapes after all, and grapes are a fruit of the vine. Nor does it matter if it is red wine or white wine (and so it would not matter if it was white grape juice or purple grape juice). I mean, if you were in a situation and you had nothing at all except water, then just use the water. God and His Son are not that exacting. The fact that you are doing as Christ commanded with whatever you have is what matters. That is what shows your love and your faith.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ Jaheshua,
tammy

So God has the power to turn water into wine, but not stop alcoholism when a person drinks in honor of God? Why doesn't God turn the wine back into water for them?

This does not make sense. Your original complaint was that an alcoholic who was trying to stop drinking could not partake if they loved [Jesus]. But an alcoholic (or a child) could drink non-fermented grapes (grape juice), or even water (if that is all they had). So what reason do you have to complain now? That someone is an alcoholic to begin with?

Let me guess, that would be evidence that God existed and we can't have that....

Turning wine into water or water into wine would be evidence of a miracle, sure. But if someone wants to eat and drink out of love for Christ, then they already have faith in Him to begin with (who loves someone they do not think exists?) But if someone does not believe God or His Son exists in the first place, then what motivation do they have to eat or drink to begin with?


Your comment just seems completely disjointed from your original comment. I am glad for your original comment though, so thank you! Because there must be some for whom this IS a concern, some wanting to say yes to Christ, to eat and drink of Him... but uncertain if they could still do so if they cannot drink alcohol.

So again, thank you - truly - for your question!


**

To anyone listening,


Some want to make it harder for others to come to Christ, shutting the door to those who want to say "YES" to Him, to enter into the Kingdom of heaven. Not just Christ, but also the apostles spoke against doing that. (Matt 23:13; Acts 15:9)



Peace again to you, and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

I note the constant moving of goalposts by the religious when they defend their Faith. Mormons, Muslims and Christians alike.

I'm not sure if you are referring to me or not, but I moved no goalpost. I simply answered your concern about an alcoholic not wanting to drink alcohol.

I don't think it's important that people drink alcohol to show their allegiance to someone, yet, that's what a Christians claimed. So, do you disagree that people need to drink alcohol to honor God?
OK.
Others disagree.
What does God say? Seriously, what is God's opinion on the matter?

I did post what Christ said on the matter of eating and drinking the bread and wine that mean His flesh and blood.

My first post on this thread:

viewtopic.php?p=1114622#p1114622

There are subsequent posts as well.



Peace again to you.

I'm curious: Why do Christians eat and drink the flesh and blood of a human sacrifice?

Because Christians listen to Christ and He said to do so. See John 6, as well as the instructions at the last supper (the Lord's Supper), but also you could click the link provided above. Christ is the LIFE (think also the Tree of Life) from whom we must eat in order to live forever.

Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Eloi]

Jesus didn't tell ALL MODERN "CHRISTIANS" to partake the emblems at the memorial:

Independent Christians take to themselves everything Jesus said to his apostles. Obviously, each speech of Jesus has its own listeners, to whom his words are directed and applied.

For example, when Jesus says to the rich young man: "Sell all the things you have and distribute the proceeds to the poor, and you will have treasure in the heavens; and come be my follower." in Luke 18:22 ... do those words apply to today's independent Christians as they did to that young man?
... Or when Jesus told his followers, "you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you" in Acts 1:8, is he saying that to modern Christians?
... Or when Jesus tells the Syrophoenician woman in Mark 7:27 "it is not right to take the bread of the children and throw it to the little dogs.", are those words directed to non-Jews today?

Evidently the words of Jesus have their own audience, and when he told his disciples to eat the bread and drink the wine, he was speaking to those with whom he had made the covenant to be kings with him during the Millennium, and not to all his followers in general.

Luke 22:28 “However, you are the ones who have stuck with me in my trials; 29 and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel.

In John 6 Jesus has an audience larger than just his disciples. On that occasion he is talking about his sacrifice as a means of salvation that everyone would have to benefit from to be saved, but he IS NOT REFERRING to the emblems of a celebration that he had not even instituted yet. In fact, he establishes the celebration only with his faithful apostles and not with all his followers.

The first followers of Jesus did not even consider that the Gentiles would be candidates to reign in heaven until the year 36 when the Italian Cornelius and his family received the holy spirit and began to show signs of power.

Obviously the teachings of Jesus concerning the mighty works that his disciples would do through the holy spirit in them, ALSO do NOT apply to any Christian today, who claims that everything Jesus said is applicable to him as an isolated individual who He claims to have Jesus as Master. Anyone can claim any authority based on the same criteria but how does he show that he actually has it?

(...)

John 6 refer sayings of Jesus BEFORE the memorial was instituted and those words were adressed to general public. Of course, anyone, king or not, priest or not, depends today on Jesus' sacrifice. It does not mean that everyone is in the new covenant, as religious leaders of Christendom teaches today.

Soon after most of Jesus’ apostles died, imitation Christians worked their way into the congregation. (Matt. 13:24-27, 37-39) They spoke “twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.” (Acts 20:29, 30) One of the “twisted things” that imitation Christians eventually began teaching was that Jesus did not offer his body “once for all time to bear the sins of many,” as the Bible says, but that his sacrifice must be repeated over and over again. (Heb. 9:27, 28) Today many sincere people believe this false teaching. They gather together in churches regularly—sometimes daily—to observe what has come to be called “the Sacrifice of the Mass.” Other religious organizations observe the death of Jesus less often, but most of their members have only a vague notion about what Jesus’ sacrifice has accomplished. (w23 January "Jehovah Blesses Our Efforts to Observe the Memorial" _ paragraph 5) https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2023245

[boatsnguitars]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

In my experience most Christians think you should drink the wine if you love Jesus and not drink it if you dont.

I guess alcoholics aren't allowed to Love Jesus if they're trying to stop drinking....

Grape juice would be just as fine. Wine is made from grapes after all, and grapes are a fruit of the vine. Nor does it matter if it is red wine or white wine (and so it would not matter if it was white grape juice or purple grape juice). I mean, if you were in a situation and you had nothing at all except water, then just use the water. God and His Son are not that exacting. The fact that you are doing as Christ commanded with whatever you have is what matters. That is what shows your love and your faith.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ Jaheshua,
tammy

So God has the power to turn water into wine, but not stop alcoholism when a person drinks in honor of God? Why doesn't God turn the wine back into water for them?

This does not make sense. Your original complaint was that an alcoholic who was trying to stop drinking could not partake if they loved [Jesus]. But an alcoholic (or a child) could drink non-fermented grapes (grape juice), or even water (if that is all they had). So what reason do you have to complain now? That someone is an alcoholic to begin with?

Let me guess, that would be evidence that God existed and we can't have that....

Turning wine into water or water into wine would be evidence of a miracle, sure. But if someone wants to eat and drink out of love for Christ, then they already have faith in Him to begin with (who loves someone they do not think exists?) But if someone does not believe God or His Son exists in the first place, then what motivation do they have to eat or drink to begin with?


Your comment just seems completely disjointed from your original comment. I am glad for your original comment though, so thank you! Because there must be some for whom this IS a concern, some wanting to say yes to Christ, to eat and drink of Him... but uncertain if they could still do so if they cannot drink alcohol.

So again, thank you - truly - for your question!


**

To anyone listening,


Some want to make it harder for others to come to Christ, shutting the door to those who want to say "YES" to Him, to enter into the Kingdom of heaven. Not just Christ, but also the apostles spoke against doing that. (Matt 23:13; Acts 15:9)



Peace again to you, and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

I note the constant moving of goalposts by the religious when they defend their Faith. Mormons, Muslims and Christians alike.

I'm not sure if you are referring to me or not, but I moved no goalpost. I simply answered your concern about an alcoholic not wanting to drink alcohol.

I don't think it's important that people drink alcohol to show their allegiance to someone, yet, that's what a Christians claimed. So, do you disagree that people need to drink alcohol to honor God?
OK.
Others disagree.
What does God say? Seriously, what is God's opinion on the matter?

I did post what Christ said on the matter of eating and drinking the bread and wine that mean His flesh and blood.

My first post on this thread:

viewtopic.php?p=1114622#p1114622

There are subsequent posts as well.



Peace again to you.

I'm curious: Why do Christians eat and drink the flesh and blood of a human sacrifice?

Because Christians listen to Christ and He said to do so. See John 6, as well as the instructions at the last supper (the Lord's Supper), but also you could click the link provided above. Christ is the LIFE (think also the Tree of Life) from whom we must eat in order to live forever.

Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Are you Catholic? Do you believe it actually turns into Jesus's flesh and blood? Was Jesus a drunk? Is that why his blood is so alcoholic?

[JehovahsWitness]

I'm curious: Why do Christians eat and drink the flesh and blood of a human sacrifice?

Jehovah's Witnesses here:

We don't eat or drink any literal blood: bread and wine are symbolic of Jesus life. Rather like when people raise a glass in someone's memory, those that drink (or eat) are actually ingesting bread and wine (not blood and human flesh).



My understanding is only CATHOLICS belive the food is literally transformed miraculously inside their stomachs.

[boatsnguitars]

I'm curious: Why do Christians eat and drink the flesh and blood of a human sacrifice?

Jehovah's Witnesses here:

We don't eat or drink any literal blood: bread and wine are symbolic of Jesus life. Rather like when people raise a glass in someone's memory, those that drink (or eat) are actually ingesting bread and wine (not blood and human flesh).



My understanding is only CATHOLICS belive the food is literally transformed miraculously inside their stomachs.

Right, according to Catholic doctrine, during the celebration of the Eucharist, the bread and wine are transubstantiated, which means that they are transformed into the actual body and blood of Jesus Christ, while still retaining their outward appearance of bread and wine. This transformation is believed to occur through the power of the Holy Spirit and the words spoken by the priest during the consecration.

Catholics believe that by consuming the Eucharist, they are receiving the actual body and blood of Jesus Christ and thereby participating in a mystical union with Him. This practice is based on the words of Jesus at the Last Supper, where he said to his disciples, "Take and eat; this is my body" (Matthew 26:26).

This means Christians eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus, the human sacrifice - a "child" sacrifice (since it was the parent who chose to accept the sacrifice and was the one who orchestrated it).