Should ALL Christians eat and drink the emblems of Jesus?

[Eloi]

That's this topic about: Should ALL Christians partake of the symbols of Christ?

First idea: To whom did Christ tell that he was making a covenant with, so they will be kings and judges?

Luke 22:24 However, there also arose a heated dispute among them over which one of them was considered to be the greatest. 25 But he said to them: “The kings of the nations lord it over them, and those having authority over them are called Benefactors. 26 You, though, are not to be that way. But let the one who is the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the one taking the lead as the one ministering. 27 For which one is greater, the one dining or the one serving? Is it not the one dining? But I am among you as the one serving.
28 “However, you are the ones who have stuck with me in my trials; 29 and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel.

Second idea: If during the great tribulation Jesus separates sheep from goats according to what humans did to their brothers, who would be his brothers, and who would be the sheep selected for having treated them well? (Matt. 25:31-46).

Matt. 25:31 “When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. 35 For I became hungry and you gave me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you received me hospitably; 36 naked and you clothed me. I fell sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you visited me.’ 37 Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ ...

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

In my experience most Christians think you should drink the wine if you love Jesus and not drink it if you dont.

I guess alcoholics aren't allowed to Love Jesus if they're trying to stop drinking....

Grape juice would be just as fine. Wine is made from grapes after all, and grapes are a fruit of the vine. Nor does it matter if it is red wine or white wine (and so it would not matter if it was white grape juice or purple grape juice). I mean, if you were in a situation and you had nothing at all except water, then just use the water. God and His Son are not that exacting. The fact that you are doing as Christ commanded with whatever you have is what matters. That is what shows your love and your faith.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ Jaheshua,
tammy

So God has the power to turn water into wine, but not stop alcoholism when a person drinks in honor of God? Why doesn't God turn the wine back into water for them?

This does not make sense. Your original complaint was that an alcoholic who was trying to stop drinking could not partake if they loved [Jesus]. But an alcoholic (or a child) could drink non-fermented grapes (grape juice), or even water (if that is all they had). So what reason do you have to complain now? That someone is an alcoholic to begin with?

Let me guess, that would be evidence that God existed and we can't have that....

Turning wine into water or water into wine would be evidence of a miracle, sure. But if someone wants to eat and drink out of love for Christ, then they already have faith in Him to begin with (who loves someone they do not think exists?) But if someone does not believe God or His Son exists in the first place, then what motivation do they have to eat or drink to begin with?


Your comment just seems completely disjointed from your original comment. I am glad for your original comment though, so thank you! Because there must be some for whom this IS a concern, some wanting to say yes to Christ, to eat and drink of Him... but uncertain if they could still do so if they cannot drink alcohol.

So again, thank you - truly - for your question!


**

To anyone listening,


Some want to make it harder for others to come to Christ, shutting the door to those who want to say "YES" to Him, to enter into the Kingdom of heaven. Not just Christ, but also the apostles spoke against doing that. (Matt 23:13; Acts 15:9)



Peace again to you, and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

I note the constant moving of goalposts by the religious when they defend their Faith. Mormons, Muslims and Christians alike.

I'm not sure if you are referring to me or not, but I moved no goalpost. I simply answered your concern about an alcoholic not wanting to drink alcohol.

I don't think it's important that people drink alcohol to show their allegiance to someone, yet, that's what a Christians claimed. So, do you disagree that people need to drink alcohol to honor God?
OK.
Others disagree.
What does God say? Seriously, what is God's opinion on the matter?

I did post what Christ said on the matter of eating and drinking the bread and wine that mean His flesh and blood.

My first post on this thread:

viewtopic.php?p=1114622#p1114622

There are subsequent posts as well.



Peace again to you.

I'm curious: Why do Christians eat and drink the flesh and blood of a human sacrifice?

Because Christians listen to Christ and He said to do so. See John 6, as well as the instructions at the last supper (the Lord's Supper), but also you could click the link provided above. Christ is the LIFE (think also the Tree of Life) from whom we must eat in order to live forever.

Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Are you Catholic? Do you believe it actually turns into Jesus's flesh and blood? Was Jesus a drunk? Is that why his blood is so alcoholic?

No I am not Catholic. And I truly have no idea what you are talking about with regard to "alcoholic blood". The bread means His flesh and the wine means His blood; you do have to discern these things, but the bread does not turn into literal human flesh.




Peace again to you.

[onewithhim]

I'm curious: Why do Christians eat and drink the flesh and blood of a human sacrifice?

Jehovah's Witnesses here:

We don't eat or drink any literal blood: bread and wine are symbolic of Jesus life. Rather like when people raise a glass in someone's memory, those that drink (or eat) are actually ingesting bread and wine (not blood and human flesh).



My understanding is only CATHOLICS belive the food is literally transformed miraculously inside their stomachs.

Right, according to Catholic doctrine, during the celebration of the Eucharist, the bread and wine are transubstantiated, which means that they are transformed into the actual body and blood of Jesus Christ, while still retaining their outward appearance of bread and wine. This transformation is believed to occur through the power of the Holy Spirit and the words spoken by the priest during the consecration.

Catholics believe that by consuming the Eucharist, they are receiving the actual body and blood of Jesus Christ and thereby participating in a mystical union with Him. This practice is based on the words of Jesus at the Last Supper, where he said to his disciples, "Take and eat; this is my body" (Matthew 26:26).

This means Christians eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus, the human sacrifice - a "child" sacrifice (since it was the parent who chose to accept the sacrifice and was the one who orchestrated it).

Transubstantiation goes against all that is holy. If Christ's actual body and blood are consumed, there is cannibalism going on. God would not want that. First of all, God forbids the ingesting of blood. (Acts 15:20,29) Is that command too trivial?

[boatsnguitars]

I'm curious: Why do Christians eat and drink the flesh and blood of a human sacrifice?

Jehovah's Witnesses here:

We don't eat or drink any literal blood: bread and wine are symbolic of Jesus life. Rather like when people raise a glass in someone's memory, those that drink (or eat) are actually ingesting bread and wine (not blood and human flesh).



My understanding is only CATHOLICS belive the food is literally transformed miraculously inside their stomachs.

Right, according to Catholic doctrine, during the celebration of the Eucharist, the bread and wine are transubstantiated, which means that they are transformed into the actual body and blood of Jesus Christ, while still retaining their outward appearance of bread and wine. This transformation is believed to occur through the power of the Holy Spirit and the words spoken by the priest during the consecration.

Catholics believe that by consuming the Eucharist, they are receiving the actual body and blood of Jesus Christ and thereby participating in a mystical union with Him. This practice is based on the words of Jesus at the Last Supper, where he said to his disciples, "Take and eat; this is my body" (Matthew 26:26).

This means Christians eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus, the human sacrifice - a "child" sacrifice (since it was the parent who chose to accept the sacrifice and was the one who orchestrated it).

Transubstantiation goes against all that is holy. If Christ's actual body and blood are consumed, there is cannibalism going on. God would not want that. First of all, God forbids the ingesting of blood. (Acts 15:20,29) Is that command too trivial?

Nicene Creed
We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;
of the same essence as the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven;
he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
and was made human.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried.
The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again with glory
to judge the living and the dead.
His kingdom will never end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life.
He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified.
He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come. Amen.

You'll have to take it up with the Pope to see if you can simply pick and choose which of these things you believe, and still call yourself a follower of Christ.

But, a rule check here. Are we allowed to disparage other religions and call them Satanic ("against all that is holy")? Because, I think that's exactly how the Catholic Church feels about every other denomination....

[JehovahsWitness]

You'll have to take it up with the Pope to see if you can simply pick and choose which of these things you believe, and still call yourself a follower of Christ....

I thought I was clear, I am one of JEHOVAHS WITNESSES not a Catholic. I could not care less about what the Pope thinks much less the Nicean creed. If the Pope said the sky was blue I'd demand a second opinon. I do not care how Catholic Church feels about any topic. I do care about the Catholic people however and always try and share bible truths with them whenever I can.

JWs base our beliefs directly on the bible and are concerned with meeting God's standards for worship not the Pope's.




Best Regards,

JEHOVAHS WITNESS

[tam]

Peace to you,

Jesus didn't tell ALL MODERN "CHRISTIANS" to partake the emblems at the memorial:

("Emblems at the memorial" is a religious term and not one that Christ used.)

But Christ DID tell the apostles to 'go and make disciples of all nations... teaching them to obey EVERYTHING that He had commanded them (the apostles)' Think about that for a moment and then tell me where there is room for any disciple down the road to override that command and change it, and teach other disciples NOT to obey everything that Christ commanded the apostles?


But this and other things have already been covered throughout the thread, as has the post that you quoted from yourself:

viewtopic.php?p=1115168#p1115168



Peace again to you.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Although nearly 20,000 modern Jehovah's Witnesses believe that they have been called by God in the hope of reigning with Jesus in heaven, millions of Jehovah's Witnesses who do not have that hope happily serve Jehovah, considering that their hope of living on earth forever is a great hope that will fully meet their expectations regarding the kingdom of God: an earthly paradise where there will be no sickness, pain, or death, and all evil people will have ceased to exist.

Rev. 21:3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

To despise and belittle the hope of the kingdom as an earthly subject, as if it were something despicable, is a rejection of the promises of God that he has been giving since ancient times to his servants. It is disrespectful to Jehovah.

Who is despising and belittling the hope of the Kingdom (on earth or in heaven or both)... unless perhaps your religion is teaching you (erroneously) that YOU would be despising the promise of God and disrespecting Him if you longed to be in the New Covenant and to be with Christ (anywhere He is)?

How utterly backward is that?


Peace again to you.

[onewithhim]

I'm curious: Why do Christians eat and drink the flesh and blood of a human sacrifice?

Jehovah's Witnesses here:

We don't eat or drink any literal blood: bread and wine are symbolic of Jesus life. Rather like when people raise a glass in someone's memory, those that drink (or eat) are actually ingesting bread and wine (not blood and human flesh).



My understanding is only CATHOLICS belive the food is literally transformed miraculously inside their stomachs.

Right, according to Catholic doctrine, during the celebration of the Eucharist, the bread and wine are transubstantiated, which means that they are transformed into the actual body and blood of Jesus Christ, while still retaining their outward appearance of bread and wine. This transformation is believed to occur through the power of the Holy Spirit and the words spoken by the priest during the consecration.

Catholics believe that by consuming the Eucharist, they are receiving the actual body and blood of Jesus Christ and thereby participating in a mystical union with Him. This practice is based on the words of Jesus at the Last Supper, where he said to his disciples, "Take and eat; this is my body" (Matthew 26:26).

This means Christians eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus, the human sacrifice - a "child" sacrifice (since it was the parent who chose to accept the sacrifice and was the one who orchestrated it).

Transubstantiation goes against all that is holy. If Christ's actual body and blood are consumed, there is cannibalism going on. God would not want that. First of all, God forbids the ingesting of blood. (Acts 15:20,29) Is that command too trivial?

Nicene Creed
We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;
of the same essence as the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven;
he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
and was made human.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried.
The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again with glory
to judge the living and the dead.
His kingdom will never end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life.
He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified.
He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come. Amen.

You'll have to take it up with the Pope to see if you can simply pick and choose which of these things you believe, and still call yourself a follower of Christ.

But, a rule check here. Are we allowed to disparage other religions and call them Satanic ("against all that is holy")? Because, I think that's exactly how the Catholic Church feels about every other denomination....

I don't honor that creed, as I see it as the fruit of Christians that have gone off the way and followed the twisted teachings of men, making them a part of the great Apostacy. Jesus' earliest followers warned of this great shifting from true Christianity, as did Jesus himself (Mathew chapter 13). Paul wrote: "For I know this, that after my departing, shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them." (Acts 20:29,30, KJV) And they succeeded in forming the biggest faux Christian church of all time, raking in 1/3 of the world's population.

How do you see Acts 20:29,30 fulfilled?

If you disparage my religion, I can take it. I won't complain, I'll just answer whatever you post.

[boatsnguitars]

Why aren't you who Paul was talking about?

[historia]

My understanding is only CATHOLICS belive the food is literally transformed miraculously inside their stomachs.

I don't think any Christian church thinks that a change takes place inside the believer's stomach.

Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox Christians, and many Protestants churches believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, and that change takes place during the Mass or service. The Roman Catholic doctrine on transubstantiation simply concerns how that happens.

[Eloi]

The Kingdom of God include kings (they are also priests) and subjects of that Kingdom here on earth.

Jesus taught to pray for the Kingdom to come, and pray that God's will be done in heaven AND on earth (Matt. 6:10).

In Luke 16:16 (Matt. 11:11) Jesus told his disciples that not even John the Baptizer will be a king (and priest) in the Kingdom, and Peter, said that no prophet from before Christ would be in the heavens exercising in those positions either:

1 Pet. 1:10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the undeserved kindness meant for you made a diligent inquiry and a careful search. 11 They kept on investigating what particular time or what season the spirit within them was indicating concerning Christ as it testified beforehand about the sufferings meant for Christ and about the glory that would follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were ministering, not to themselves, but to you, regarding what has now been announced to you by those who declared the good news to you with holy spirit sent from heaven. Into these very things, angels are desiring to peer.

Here I explained with the Scriptures that no person can "take this honor of his own accord", not even Jesus could (Heb. 5:4-6).

Christendom does not teach its members that there is a small group of people (144 000) who are going to reign in heaven over the humanity on earth, those who will survive the great tribulation right on the planet. They make believers think that all of them will go to heaven, so they deceive them into believing that everyone who believes in Jesus Christ can consider themselves a future king and priest... some even imagine that they already are "kings and priests" on earth before they die.

As can be read in Luke 22:28-30, the pact to reign was made by Jesus with certain special followers who have to "drink the same cup" that Jesus drank in his trials and sufferings before they to be able to inherit those promises to be kings with him.

Matt. 20:20 Then the mother of the sons of Zebedee approached him with her sons, doing obeisance and asking for something from him. 21 He said to her: “What do you want?” She replied to him: “Give the word that these two sons of mine may sit down, one at your right hand and one at your left, in your Kingdom.” 22 Jesus answered: “You do not know what you are asking for. Can you drink the cup that I am about to drink?” They said to him: “We can.” 23 He said to them: “You will indeed drink my cup, but to sit down at my right hand and at my left is not mine to give, but it belongs to those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”

In fact, not even Jesus himself could decide to be a priest of Jehovah, but it was Jehovah who specifically chose and appointed him. Similarly, no person is authorized to choose himself as Jehovah's "king and priest" except that he himself shows him that he has been called for such an assignment.

Heb. 5:4 A man does not take this honor of his own accord, but he receives it only when he is called by God, just as Aaron was. 5 So, too, the Christ did not glorify himself by becoming a high priest, but was glorified by the One who said to him: “You are my son; today I have become your father.” 6 As he also says in another place, “You are a priest forever in the manner of Mel·chizʹe·dek.”

Even after being called, the person must prove faithful to the point where his position as future king and priest with Jesus in heaven is "sealed" or final.

Phil. 3:8 What is more, I do indeed also consider all things to be loss on account of the excelling value of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have taken the loss of all things and I consider them as a lot of refuse, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in union with him, not because of my own righteousness from following the Law, but because of the righteousness that is through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God based on faith. 10 My aim is to know him and the power of his resurrection and to share in his sufferings, submitting myself to a death like his, 11 to see if at all possible I may attain to the earlier resurrection from the dead.

In view of the fact that this covenant is unique for some people, it is completely contrary to God's purpose for any believer to make any other believer think that they should eat the bread or drink the wine of the Supper, without considering that this is reserved only for the future kings and priests.