Why is Jesus called the Word, the Logos of God?

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MissKate13
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Why is Jesus called the Word, the Logos of God?

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Post by MissKate13 »

Why is Jesus called the Word (Logos) of God?

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. (John 1:14)

He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. (Rev. 19:13)

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The short answer to the OP question would be because Jesus was the embodiment of God’s message to us.

If I speak a word, that word is a part of me, is it not? If I respond to a post from you, you associate that post with me. They are my words. You cannot separate me from my words. They are an “exact representation” of me. Yes, you are reading them from a phone or computer screen, but those words belong to me. I am in control of them and responsible for them.

It is no different than the relationship between God the Father, and His Son, Jesus, the Word. The words Jesus spoke were from the Father (John 12:49). Jesus was the embodiment of the words spoken by the Father, the Father’s words in the physical body of Jesus.

Just as I cannot separate my words from me, Jesus, the Word of God, could not be separated from the Father. Just as I can send my words out in a forum post, the Father sent His words out in the body of Jesus.

This is why Jesus would say “I and the Father are one” John 10:30). It is why he could say “…You, the Father, are in Me, and I am in You” (John 17:21). It is why Jesus would say, “…Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father…” (John 14:9). And why He would say, “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me” (John 6:38)

This is why I believe the Father is YHWH, the Son is YHWH, and the Holy Spirit is YHWH. Each has a role. The Father is greater in position. He controls both the Son and the Spirit, who is the power behind the words of the Father.

Why did Jesus pray to the Father? Why did he submit to the Father’s will? The answer is simple. The Father was in control of His Word, just as we are in control of our words.

The Father, His Word (the logos) and His Spirit have always existed as the ONE and only true YHWH! They cannot be separated!
”For unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins.” (John 8:24

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Re: Why is Jesus called the Word, the Logos of God?

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Post by MadJW »

Difflugia wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 3:06 pm
MadJW wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 2:59 pmAs it did with Moses-Ex 7:1: And Jehovah said to Moses, See, I have made thee God to Pharaoh; and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
That's exactly my point: that's one metaphorical use six hundred years earlier in a different language and in a context that supports the metaphor. It's poor justification for John's author using the metaphor in a context that doesn't.
Both Moses and Jesus represented Jeovah at that time.

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Re: Why is Jesus called the Word, the Logos of God?

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Post by MadJW »

Difflugia wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 3:06 pm
MadJW wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 2:59 pmAs it did with Moses-Ex 7:1: And Jehovah said to Moses, See, I have made thee God to Pharaoh; and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
That's exactly my point: that's one metaphorical use six hundred years earlier in a different language and in a context that supports the metaphor. It's poor justification for John's author using the metaphor in a context that doesn't.
Both Moses and Jesus represented Jeovah at that time.

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Re: Why is Jesus called the Word, the Logos of God?

Post #43

Post by MadJW »

Difflugia wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 3:06 pm
MadJW wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 2:59 pmAs it did with Moses-Ex 7:1: And Jehovah said to Moses, See, I have made thee God to Pharaoh; and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
That's exactly my point: that's one metaphorical use six hundred years earlier in a different language and in a context that supports the metaphor. It's poor justification for John's author using the metaphor in a context that doesn't.
Both Moses and Jesus represented Jeovah at that time.

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Re: Why is Jesus called the Word, the Logos of God?

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Post by Difflugia »

MadJW wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 3:38 pmBoth Moses and Jesus represented Jeovah at that time.
MadJW wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 3:39 pmBoth Moses and Jesus represented Jeovah at that time.
MadJW wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 3:42 pmBoth Moses and Jesus represented Jeovah at that time.
I assume by "at that time" you mean at the respective times that the verses were written, but how does that help your case? Whenever one being represents another, metaphor is understandable? Exodus 7:1 is within a larger context of God Himself telling Moses to speak for Him and Moses asking why Pharaoh would heed him. "I will make you god to Pharaoh." John 1:1 is the very first thought in the story and is John's author setting the context for what's to come. Exodus 7:1 and John 1:1 are not at all analogous. The metaphor in Exodus is made unambiguous by the context, which is exactly the opposite of John. You're trying to use one literary construction to draw your desired interpretation out of a completely different one. You're then using that tortured reading of John as a prooftext for the theology that you yourself put into it. At best it's a non sequitur, at worst it's circular.
My pronouns are he, him, and his.

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Re: Why is Jesus called the Word, the Logos of God?

Post #45

Post by MadJW »

Difflugia wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 4:57 pm
MadJW wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 3:38 pmBoth Moses and Jesus represented Jeovah at that time.
MadJW wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 3:39 pmBoth Moses and Jesus represented Jeovah at that time.
MadJW wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 3:42 pmBoth Moses and Jesus represented Jeovah at that time.
I assume by "at that time" you mean at the respective times that the verses were written, but how does that help your case? Whenever one being represents another, metaphor is understandable? Exodus 7:1 is within a larger context of God Himself telling Moses to speak for Him and Moses asking why Pharaoh would heed him. "I will make you god to Pharaoh." John 1:1 is the very first thought in the story and is John's author setting the context for what's to come. Exodus 7:1 and John 1:1 are not at all analogous. The metaphor in Exodus is made unambiguous by the context, which is exactly the opposite of John. You're trying to use one literary construction to draw your desired interpretation out of a completely different one. You're then using that tortured reading of John as a prooftext for the theology that you yourself put into it. At best it's a non sequitur, at worst it's circular.
If you can't see it, I can't help you.
If one God was speaking to another literal God...

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Re: Why is Jesus called the Word, the Logos of God?

Post #46

Post by Difflugia »

MadJW wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 5:08 pmIf you can't see it, I can't help you.
That's OK. Romans 12:6-8.
MadJW wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 5:08 pmIf one God was speaking to another literal God...
It would be difficult for mere humans to understand and they might be tempted to reinterpret God's Holy Writ such that they don't have to think about it.
My pronouns are he, him, and his.

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Re: Why is Jesus called the Word, the Logos of God?

Post #47

Post by onewithhim »

Difflugia wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 2:53 pm
onewithhim wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 1:41 pmThe second "god" in the verse has no article, meaning that this "god" is just a powerful, important individual (which the word "god" means).
An important distinction that you repeatedly fail to make is the difference between what something could mean and what something dogmatically does mean. The author is introducing and describing a novel theological concept and expecting to be understood, but you're insisting that we treat one of those words metaphorically because it's been used that way somewhere in the Bible. The word "god" doesn't mean "just a powerful, important individual." It's sometimes metaphorically used to mean that as a form of hyperbole, but you're telling us to believe such within a discussion about God. That's like claiming that in a discussion about baseball, home run is being used metaphorically because it sometimes is. It's possible, but hardly likely, especially because the only apparent reason for your assertion is that you're uncomfortable with the theological implications.
John was trying to distinguish between the only true God (the Father, YHWH) and the Word, Christ. He did this by including the article "ho" when mentioning "God" in reference to the God whom the Word was with. He wanted to make clear the fact that the Word was not the God but still was a powerful important individual. He did so by also leaving off the "ho" in front of "god" in the last part of the verse. There was no "novel theological concept." The nation of Israel knew YHWH to be God Almighty, so that went without saying. Christ, who carried the pure religion of the Jews to another level, is stated to be what he was, so that the Jews and Greeks could understand. He was WITH God and he was A god--powerful, important--but to be distinguished from THE God, YHWH. It was reiterated many times in John's Gospel that Jesus was the Messiah that the nation had been awaiting. That was not a "novel theological concept."

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