JEHOVAH ELOHYM SAID, BEHOLD MAN IS BECOME AS ONE OF US, TO KNOW GOOD AND EVIL.

[Eddie Ramos]

Genesis 3:22 (KJV 1900)
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

The question for this O.P. is, which ONE of the Godhead did man become like when they sinned?
I would like to put forth that they became like Jesus Christ, because it was only Jesus Christ who became sin and died for sin before the world began. So, when he (Jesus) created the world, he (as ONE of the three in the Godhead) was the one who had already knew good and evil.

[1213]

Genesis 3:22 (KJV 1900)
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

The question for this O.P. is, which ONE of the Godhead did man become like when they sinned?

God presides in the great assembly. He judges among the gods.
Psalms 82:1

I said, "You are gods, All of you are sons of the Most High. Nevertheless you shall die like men, And fall like one of the rulers."
Psalms 82:6-7

Now it happened on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Yahweh, that Satan also came among them.
Job 1:6

Maybe God was speaking in that great assembly and Satan was also among them that time?

[Eddie Ramos]

Genesis 3:22 (KJV 1900)
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

The question for this O.P. is, which ONE of the Godhead did man become like when they sinned?

God presides in the great assembly. He judges among the gods.
Psalms 82:1

I said, "You are gods, All of you are sons of the Most High. Nevertheless you shall die like men, And fall like one of the rulers."
Psalms 82:6-7

Now it happened on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Yahweh, that Satan also came among them.
Job 1:6

Maybe God was speaking in that great assembly and Satan was also among them that time?

Thank you for the scriptures, however, since God is very specific with the words he chose, in this particular verse (Gen 3:22) he tells us who exactly is in view here, or who exactly God is referring to, by using his own name, JEHOVAH. In other words, He didn't just say, and "ELOHYM said, man is become as one of us...". In which case, your argument would have a firmer position.

We could also understand the verse to say, "And JEHOVAH God said, behold, man is become as one of us..". Thus we can see that God (as a plural triune Godhead) was speaking to himself. Here's another time he did the same thing, except this time, he leaves out the plural word "elohym", yet he (JEHOVAH) still refers to himself as more than one.

Genesis 11:5–9 (KJV 1900)
And JEHOVAH came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. 6 And JEHOVAH said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. 7 Go to, let US go down(Literally translated as, "WE will go down"), and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech. 8 So JEHOVAH scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. 9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because JEHOVAH did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did JEHOVAH scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

[Miles]

Genesis 3:22 (KJV 1900)
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

The question for this O.P. is, which ONE of the Godhead did man become like when they sinned?

God presides in the great assembly. He judges among the gods.
Psalms 82:1

I said, "You are gods, All of you are sons of the Most High. Nevertheless you shall die like men, And fall like one of the rulers."
Psalms 82:6-7

Now it happened on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Yahweh, that Satan also came among them.
Job 1:6

Maybe God was speaking in that great assembly and Satan was also among them that time?

Thank you for the scriptures, however, since God is very specific with the words he chose, in this particular verse (Gen 3:22) he tells us who exactly is in view here, or who exactly God is referring to, by using his own name, JEHOVAH. In other words, He didn't just say, and "ELOHYM said, man is become as one of us...". In which case, your argument would have a firmer position.

Really! So which translation below contains god's "very specific words he chose"?

Genesis 3:22 (ERV)
22 The Lord God said, “Look, the man has become like us—he knows about good and evil. And now the man might take the fruit from the tree of life. If the man eats that fruit, he will live forever.”

Genesis 3:22 (AMP)
And the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us (Father, Son, Holy Spirit), knowing [how to distinguish between] good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take from the tree of life as well, and eat [its fruit], and live [in this fallen, sinful condition] forever”—

Genesis 3:22 (DRA)
And he said: Behold Adam is become as one of us, knowing good and evil: now, therefore, lest perhaps he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.

Genesis 3:22 (CJB)
(A: v, S: iv) Adonai, God, said, “See, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil. Now, to prevent his putting out his hand and taking also from the tree of life, eating, and living forever — ”

Genesis 3:22 (VOICE)
God: Look, the human has become like one of Us, possessing the knowledge of good and evil. If We don’t do something, he will reach out his hand and take some of the fruit from the tree of life, eat it, and live forever.

Genesis 3:22 (OJB)
And Hashem Elohim said, See, HaAdam is become like one of Us, knowing tov v’rah; and now, lest he put forth his yad, and take also of HaEtz HaChayyim, and eat, and chai l’olam (live forever);

Genesis 3:22 (WYC)
and said, Lo! Adam is made as one of us, and knoweth good and evil; now therefore see ye, lest peradventure he put [out] his hand, and take [also] of the tree of life, and eat, and live without end.

Or do we simply cherry pick the Bible we use?

.

[Eddie Ramos]

Genesis 3:22 (KJV 1900)
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

The question for this O.P. is, which ONE of the Godhead did man become like when they sinned?

God presides in the great assembly. He judges among the gods.
Psalms 82:1

I said, "You are gods, All of you are sons of the Most High. Nevertheless you shall die like men, And fall like one of the rulers."
Psalms 82:6-7

Now it happened on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Yahweh, that Satan also came among them.
Job 1:6

Maybe God was speaking in that great assembly and Satan was also among them that time?

Thank you for the scriptures, however, since God is very specific with the words he chose, in this particular verse (Gen 3:22) he tells us who exactly is in view here, or who exactly God is referring to, by using his own name, JEHOVAH. In other words, He didn't just say, and "ELOHYM said, man is become as one of us...". In which case, your argument would have a firmer position.

Really! So which translation below contains god's "very specific words he chose"?

Genesis 3:22 (ERV)
22 The Lord God said, “Look, the man has become like us—he knows about good and evil. And now the man might take the fruit from the tree of life. If the man eats that fruit, he will live forever.”

Genesis 3:22 (AMP)
And the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us (Father, Son, Holy Spirit), knowing [how to distinguish between] good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take from the tree of life as well, and eat [its fruit], and live [in this fallen, sinful condition] forever”—

Genesis 3:22 (DRA)
And he said: Behold Adam is become as one of us, knowing good and evil: now, therefore, lest perhaps he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.

Genesis 3:22 (CJB)
(A: v, S: iv) Adonai, God, said, “See, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil. Now, to prevent his putting out his hand and taking also from the tree of life, eating, and living forever — ”

Genesis 3:22 (VOICE)
God: Look, the human has become like one of Us, possessing the knowledge of good and evil. If We don’t do something, he will reach out his hand and take some of the fruit from the tree of life, eat it, and live forever.

Genesis 3:22 (OJB)
And Hashem Elohim said, See, HaAdam is become like one of Us, knowing tov v’rah; and now, lest he put forth his yad, and take also of HaEtz HaChayyim, and eat, and chai l’olam (live forever);

Genesis 3:22 (WYC)
and said, Lo! Adam is made as one of us, and knoweth good and evil; now therefore see ye, lest peradventure he put [out] his hand, and take [also] of the tree of life, and eat, and live without end.

Or do we simply cherry pick the Bible we use?

.

In order to determine (not cherry pick) we can examine any translation against the original Hebrew text to see which translations best line up with the word God chose to use. So, the translations are not the standard by which we determine truth, the original Hebrew and Greek texts are. Once you have done your work on these, eliminating the bad translations becomes easy.

[onewithhim]

Genesis 3:22 (KJV 1900)
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

The question for this O.P. is, which ONE of the Godhead did man become like when they sinned?
I would like to put forth that they became like Jesus Christ, because it was only Jesus Christ who became sin and died for sin before the world began. So, when he (Jesus) created the world, he (as ONE of the three in the Godhead) was the one who had already knew good and evil.

First,there is no "godhead." Jehovah said to His Son Jesus that man had become like them---deciding for themselves what is good or bad. So we have Jehovah, the Father and God (see John 20:17), for one Person, and we have Jesus His Son, another Person, both talking to each other and observing what the first human pair were doing.

Christ did not die before the planet was created. "The world" that is mentioned is the world of mankind, alienated from God, as is spoken of at I John 2:15-17. The "world" wasn't founded until Adam ate the fruit. Then he and Eve were alienated from God. The fact that Christ would become sin and die for mankind's sin was now in the wind, so to speak. Jehovah had decided, after Adam sinned, that Christ, His Messiah, would die for mankind. It was in the future; Jesus didn't literally die back when Jehovah first set His plan in motion.

Adam and Eve, as well as all the angels, knew what good and bad was. God would have been remiss if He hadn't told them. What was different was that now A&E wanted to become independent and make up their own minds as to what was good and what was bad.

Man became like both Jehovah God and Jesus Christ, setting forth their (man's) own opinions about what was good to them and what was bad. Probably very different than what Jehovah had set forth to them originally.

[Miles]

Genesis 3:22 (KJV 1900)
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

The question for this O.P. is, which ONE of the Godhead did man become like when they sinned?

God presides in the great assembly. He judges among the gods.
Psalms 82:1

I said, "You are gods, All of you are sons of the Most High. Nevertheless you shall die like men, And fall like one of the rulers."
Psalms 82:6-7

Now it happened on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Yahweh, that Satan also came among them.
Job 1:6

Maybe God was speaking in that great assembly and Satan was also among them that time?

Thank you for the scriptures, however, since God is very specific with the words he chose, in this particular verse (Gen 3:22) he tells us who exactly is in view here, or who exactly God is referring to, by using his own name, JEHOVAH. In other words, He didn't just say, and "ELOHYM said, man is become as one of us...". In which case, your argument would have a firmer position.

Really! So which translation below contains god's "very specific words he chose"?

Genesis 3:22 (ERV)
22 The Lord God said, “Look, the man has become like us—he knows about good and evil. And now the man might take the fruit from the tree of life. If the man eats that fruit, he will live forever.”

Genesis 3:22 (AMP)
And the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us (Father, Son, Holy Spirit), knowing [how to distinguish between] good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take from the tree of life as well, and eat [its fruit], and live [in this fallen, sinful condition] forever”—

Genesis 3:22 (DRA)
And he said: Behold Adam is become as one of us, knowing good and evil: now, therefore, lest perhaps he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.

Genesis 3:22 (CJB)
(A: v, S: iv) Adonai, God, said, “See, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil. Now, to prevent his putting out his hand and taking also from the tree of life, eating, and living forever — ”

Genesis 3:22 (VOICE)
God: Look, the human has become like one of Us, possessing the knowledge of good and evil. If We don’t do something, he will reach out his hand and take some of the fruit from the tree of life, eat it, and live forever.

Genesis 3:22 (OJB)
And Hashem Elohim said, See, HaAdam is become like one of Us, knowing tov v’rah; and now, lest he put forth his yad, and take also of HaEtz HaChayyim, and eat, and chai l’olam (live forever);

Genesis 3:22 (WYC)
and said, Lo! Adam is made as one of us, and knoweth good and evil; now therefore see ye, lest peradventure he put [out] his hand, and take [also] of the tree of life, and eat, and live without end.

Or do we simply cherry pick the Bible we use?

.

In order to determine (not cherry pick) we can examine any translation against the original Hebrew text to see which translations best line up with the word God chose to use. So, the translations are not the standard by which we determine truth, the original Hebrew and Greek texts are. Once you have done your work on these, eliminating the bad translations becomes easy.

All the Hebrew texts? You do recognize, do you not, that there is no such a thing as "the original Hebrew text"? That instead there are many, many varying Hebrew texts. In fact, there are:

2 Proto-Masoretic from Second Temple period (1st century) sources

2 Proto-Masoretic from "Silent Period" (2nd-10th century) sources

11 Masoretic (7th–10th century) sources

20 Later (11th-17th century) sources

3 Modern source discoveries

PLUS several hundred Dead Sea Scrolls and fragments from Qumran

Because there's considerable differences between a lot of what these various sources say and how they say them, what you read as thee Hebrew source of OT verses are frequently filled with assumptions, conjectures, hunches, inferences, and best guesses gathered from these many sources..

Just consider this remark from the Wikipedia article on the list of Hebrew Bible manuscripts (also my source for the Hebrew material listed above):

"The first list of the Old Testament manuscripts in Hebrew, made by Benjamin Kennicott (1718–1783) and published by Oxford in 2 volumes in 1776 and 1780, listed 615 manuscripts from libraries in England and on the Continent."

615 various manuscripts! Think they were all alike? Hardly. Think all the Bibles in print today are alike? Of course they're not.

So anyone claiming to have read the "original Hebrew text" is not only pulling your leg but doesn't know what they're talking about. It's taken years upon years of dedicated scholarship to come up with the translations we do have, and even those are questionable. Simply consider the various translations of Genesis 3:22 we read in English. How trustworthy is any single one of them? Not very. And neither are the various Hebrew sources they are based on.


.

[Eddie Ramos]

First,there is no "godhead."

Thanks, but most of what you said is incorrect. First, by the term "godhead", I mean that God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are one God. You may not see this, nor agree with it, but I would be happy to discuss this in another thread, as it may veer this thread off its intended course.

Jehovah said to His Son Jesus that man had become like them---deciding for themselves what is good or bad. So we have Jehovah, the Father and God (see John 20:17), for one Person, and we have Jesus His Son, another Person, both talking to each other and observing what the first human pair were doing.

This is also incorrect when you said, "Jehovah said to His Son Jesus that man had become like them---deciding for themselves what is good or bad".

The problem seems to be that you're reading from the NLT and may be thinking that this translation is faithful to the Hebrew text. But the NLT is like a paraphrased Bible in which the translators are just conveying their thoughts on what the passage must mean by what the text actually says. So, this leads too much changing of the text, adding and taking words away.

In the case of Genesis 3:22, they decided to omit the Hebrew word translated as, "as one". This Hebrew word is made up of 2 words, the word "one" (אֶחָד‎) and the preposition "as" (כְּ‎). And while the text doesn't tell us who JEHOVAH was speaking to, I fully agree that the only person whom hw could have been speaking about is Christ. JEHOVAH God said, (to Christ), behold, man is become as one of us. To know good and evil. And while they both knew Good (because they are one God), it was only Christ (not JEHOVAH) who knew (or experienced) evil. He did this when he died to pay for sins from the foundation of the world. JEHOVAH made Christ become sin for his people.

2 Corinthians 5:21 (KJV 1900)
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Christ did not die before the planet was created. "The world" that is mentioned is the world of mankind, alienated from God, as is spoken of at I John 2:15-17.

The first statement is incorrect. Christ did die before the world (planet) was created. The world was founded upon the cornerstone, and who's the cornerstone? It's Christ. And when God speaks of the laying of the foundation of the world,

Job 38:4–7 (KJV 1900) Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast understanding.
5  Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest?
Or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6  Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened?
Or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7  When the morning stars sang together,
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

This teaches us that the foundation of the world identifies with the laying of the corner stone which is Christ. The fact that we're told that the morning stars sang together and the sons of God shouting for joy (both referring to the elect of God), identifies with the fact that payment for sins was accomplished before the world began.

2 Timothy 1:9 (KJV 1900)
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in (meaning through) Christ Jesus before the world began,

The "world" wasn't founded until Adam ate the fruit. Then he and Eve were alienated from God. The fact that Christ would become sin and die for mankind's sin was now in the wind, so to speak. Jehovah had decided, after Adam sinned, that Christ, His Messiah, would die for mankind. It was in the future; Jesus didn't literally die back when Jehovah first set His plan in motion.

I would like to see a verse that teaches you that the world wasn't founded until Adam ate the fruit. They were certainly alienated from God when they sinned, but that's not when the world was founded. Remember, the world was founded upon the corner stone, which is Christ. In order for Christ to become the corner stone, he had to make salvation possible, because anyone who ever became saved, was as a living stone which was built upon the spiritual temple, of which Christ was the chief corner stone.

Adam and Eve, as well as all the angels, knew what good and bad was. God would have been remiss if He hadn't told them. What was different was that now A&E wanted to become independent and make up their own minds as to what was good and what was bad.

Man became like both Jehovah God and Jesus Christ, setting forth their (man's) own opinions about what was good to them and what was bad. Probably very different than what Jehovah had set forth to them originally.

What we do know is that Adam and Eve knew that if they disobeyed, they would die that day. To know good and evil, is to experience it. They were created good, so they knew good, but they had not known evil until they sinned. When they sinned, now man had become not like JEHOVAH AND Christ, but only like one of them. Only as Christ, to know (having already experienced it) good and evil. I hope this helps.

[Eddie Ramos]

Genesis 3:22 (KJV 1900)
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

The question for this O.P. is, which ONE of the Godhead did man become like when they sinned?

God presides in the great assembly. He judges among the gods.
Psalms 82:1

I said, "You are gods, All of you are sons of the Most High. Nevertheless you shall die like men, And fall like one of the rulers."
Psalms 82:6-7

Now it happened on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Yahweh, that Satan also came among them.
Job 1:6

Maybe God was speaking in that great assembly and Satan was also among them that time?

Thank you for the scriptures, however, since God is very specific with the words he chose, in this particular verse (Gen 3:22) he tells us who exactly is in view here, or who exactly God is referring to, by using his own name, JEHOVAH. In other words, He didn't just say, and "ELOHYM said, man is become as one of us...". In which case, your argument would have a firmer position.

Really! So which translation below contains god's "very specific words he chose"?

Genesis 3:22 (ERV)
22 The Lord God said, “Look, the man has become like us—he knows about good and evil. And now the man might take the fruit from the tree of life. If the man eats that fruit, he will live forever.”

Genesis 3:22 (AMP)
And the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us (Father, Son, Holy Spirit), knowing [how to distinguish between] good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take from the tree of life as well, and eat [its fruit], and live [in this fallen, sinful condition] forever”—

Genesis 3:22 (DRA)
And he said: Behold Adam is become as one of us, knowing good and evil: now, therefore, lest perhaps he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.

Genesis 3:22 (CJB)
(A: v, S: iv) Adonai, God, said, “See, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil. Now, to prevent his putting out his hand and taking also from the tree of life, eating, and living forever — ”

Genesis 3:22 (VOICE)
God: Look, the human has become like one of Us, possessing the knowledge of good and evil. If We don’t do something, he will reach out his hand and take some of the fruit from the tree of life, eat it, and live forever.

Genesis 3:22 (OJB)
And Hashem Elohim said, See, HaAdam is become like one of Us, knowing tov v’rah; and now, lest he put forth his yad, and take also of HaEtz HaChayyim, and eat, and chai l’olam (live forever);

Genesis 3:22 (WYC)
and said, Lo! Adam is made as one of us, and knoweth good and evil; now therefore see ye, lest peradventure he put [out] his hand, and take [also] of the tree of life, and eat, and live without end.

Or do we simply cherry pick the Bible we use?

.

In order to determine (not cherry pick) we can examine any translation against the original Hebrew text to see which translations best line up with the word God chose to use. So, the translations are not the standard by which we determine truth, the original Hebrew and Greek texts are. Once you have done your work on these, eliminating the bad translations becomes easy.

All the Hebrew texts? You do recognize, do you not, that there is no such a thing as "the original Hebrew text"? That instead there are many, many varying Hebrew texts. In fact, there are:

2 Proto-Masoretic from Second Temple period (1st century) sources

2 Proto-Masoretic from "Silent Period" (2nd-10th century) sources

11 Masoretic (7th–10th century) sources

20 Later (11th-17th century) sources

3 Modern source discoveries

PLUS several hundred Dead Sea Scrolls and fragments from Qumran

Because there's considerable differences between a lot of what these various sources say and how they say them, what you read as thee Hebrew source of OT verses are frequently filled with assumptions, conjectures, hunches, inferences, and best guesses gathered from these many sources..

Just consider this remark from the Wikipedia article on the list of Hebrew Bible manuscripts (also my source for the Hebrew material listed above):

"The first list of the Old Testament manuscripts in Hebrew, made by Benjamin Kennicott (1718–1783) and published by Oxford in 2 volumes in 1776 and 1780, listed 615 manuscripts from libraries in England and on the Continent."

615 various manuscripts! Think they were all alike? Hardly. Think all the Bibles in print today are alike? Of course they're not.

So anyone claiming to have read the "original Hebrew text" is not only pulling your leg but doesn't know what they're talking about. It's taken years upon years of dedicated scholarship to come up with the translations we do have, and even those are questionable. Simply consider the various translations of Genesis 3:22 we read in English. How trustworthy is any single one of them? Not very. And neither are the various Hebrew sources they are based on.


.

Wikipedia is not my authority, the Bible is. And the Bible tells me that God is the one who preserved his Word pure forever.

Psalm 12:6–7 (KJV 1900)
6  The words of the LORD are pure words:
As silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7  Thou shalt keep them, O LORD,
Thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

So, man will always seek a way to doubt what God has said, but God won't let his children be led astray. I use the received text and the Masoretic text and have found it to be free from error.

[JehovahsWitness]

First, by the term "godhead", I mean that God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are one God.

The expressions "God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are one God. " are not in scriptures and if you are implying Jesus has ever been equal with his Father then this is not supported in scripture either.

YHWH (JEHOVAH) was talking to his Son who was in spirit form, when he said "one of us"







NOTE The Hebrew ECHAD translated "one" can mean "each (one)" ie both

JW