Is God's Existence Meaningful?

[boatsnguitars]

I suspect that if you can do anything you want then everything is meaningless.

Is God's Existence Meaningful? Are we meaningful to God?

Wootah clearly indicates that if we have Omni-Powers, or complete freedom to do what we want, this would be a meaningless existence. In fact, "everything" would be menaingless, even other people's lives.

So, how does this apply to God? And what is God's purpose? What reason does God have to 'get up in the morning'?

God has already experienced the life of everyone alive, and has lived, with perfect knowledge ever nanosecond in all history, and for all eternity into the future. There is literally nothing God is waiting to see. God isn't curious, isn't waiting to see what happens at Sally's dance recital, or with Ukraine, or with ChatGPT.

It's all known to God. No challenges for his perfect mind, no secrets to discover, no souls to meet.

We don't know how God happened to be this torturous, boring and ridiculous character, but it's what Theists claim exists.

How is this meaningful? How do we have meaning just because a God exists? What does Theism offer us? It sounds like an eternity of being absorbed into a tragic Borg with no goal other than to collect souls to praise it.

Atheism, at least, offers an escape from an eternity of boredom.

[JehovahsWitness]

As long as one has imagination and love then I see no reason for this to be true. Limitless imagination means limitless possibilities to be explored. And love is never meaningless.


JW

[Wootah]

I suspect that if you can do anything you want then everything is meaningless.

Is God's Existence Meaningful? Are we meaningful to God?

Wootah clearly indicates that if we have Omni-Powers, or complete freedom to do what we want, this would be a meaningless existence. In fact, "everything" would be menaingless, even other people's lives.

So, how does this apply to God? And what is God's purpose? What reason does God have to 'get up in the morning'?

God has already experienced the life of everyone alive, and has lived, with perfect knowledge ever nanosecond in all history, and for all eternity into the future. There is literally nothing God is waiting to see. God isn't curious, isn't waiting to see what happens at Sally's dance recital, or with Ukraine, or with ChatGPT.

It's all known to God. No challenges for his perfect mind, no secrets to discover, no souls to meet.

We don't know how God happened to be this torturous, boring and ridiculous character, but it's what Theists claim exists.

How is this meaningful? How do we have meaning just because a God exists? What does Theism offer us? It sounds like an eternity of being absorbed into a tragic Borg with no goal other than to collect souls to praise it.

Atheism, at least, offers an escape from an eternity of boredom.

Well, I wrote I suspect, so it was more of a consideration.

As I said in the thread. I don't think God can do everything/anything. God cannot sin. God cannot lie.

Atheism, at least, offers an escape from an eternity of boredom.

So does being a goldfish with a 3-second memory ....

[brunumb]

Atheism, at least, offers an escape from an eternity of boredom.

So does being a goldfish with a 3-second memory ....

If that characterises eternal life, then you are welcome to it.

[boatsnguitars]

Atheism, at least, offers an escape from an eternity of boredom.

So does being a goldfish with a 3-second memory ....

If that characterises eternal life, then you are welcome to it.

He stepped right in it, didn't he. It's almost as if Theists don't understand the implications of their beliefs. They are told "God is Great, and you want to be with him eternally" and they accept it. Because a guy in a robe and funny shat says so.

[boatsnguitars]

And love is never meaningless.

Agreed, so you agree atheists can have meaningful lives, because, - this may be a shocker - we can love.

It's, literally, one of the arguments Atheists make.

Then Christians come along and try to diminish it by saying, "oh, sure, but it's "atheist love" and it's all be gone in a few trillion years with the heat death of the universe. So, ultimately meaningless, because the only way something can be meaningful is to have an infinite abundance of it for all eternity...."

They don't see the irony of their statement.

[TRANSPONDER]

Interesting ideas. I thought it would be a futile discussion, but some neat thoughts coming out. Why indeed should God want us to be around? God is lonely? God needs admiration or even love? Seems like a narcissist on an uninhabited island. I thought it'd be 'It all makes sense to God' (and variants) but you boys (or girls, I don't read the profiles) make me think.

Thing is that we know a bit about love, and ....demystified, and don't take this the wrong way as i just LUV love .... it is a release of goodfeel chemicals so we opt for the survival mechanism like individual, family and social bonding. This may disappoint (if they accepted it, since they won't) believers in acts of divine magic that does stuff like love, morality and the religious awe that is so often uncomfortably like reverence for royals and dictators, but I don't discount the pleasures of art, music and Love, even if I know they are human conventions based on communication and survival instincts, and you may say that a god (name your own) rather than evolutionary forces, did all that.

But I'm left being decidedly skeptical that such evolutionary primate chemical experiences can have anything to do with a god. A long time ago, when I was still trying to interact with a razor or a girl without damaging myself, I decided that a god (if it existed) could not have human feelings. Let alone espouse a particular religion or send people to the eternal bliss of grovelling to a glowing thing on a throne or eternal torture on the basis of which place they lived and which religion they were taught.

If there is an Intelligence that created and runs the universe (as i don't rule that out as atheism is based on agnosticism) it is the 'God of Einstein' as I dubbed it back then and nothing to worry about, no more than gravity or the speed of light.

p.s - I have to address the remark about ten second goldfish. 'That may be good enough for you but it isn't for me', or words to that effect. It's like this, or these.

'Music? 'Well if just scraping wood or blowing through metal tubes is good enough for you..'. Or 'If human love is just chemicals.' .. Or indeed "if nature is just particles of dirt and hot gas' (instead of a big advertisement for God)...."

This is a very persuasive but actually wrong apologetic. It is essentially the Keats fallacy or the innocent ear fallacy. That is there are some who said they didn't want to Know about music as it would spoil the magic. Ok, I know it can look like it can ruin the Magic if you know that Schubert had syphilis and Mussorgsky was an alcoholic, but the fact is that Knowing it enhances the appreciation, it doesn't ruin it. Just as knowing how nature works does not ruin the Awe (though it does remove the Goddunnit - advert pasted over it) but increases the awe and appreciation.

Thus the Keats fallacy. I believe it was Keats who pushed this idea of 'knowledge ruins beauty' idea. But in a poem (to a nightingale, I think it was) he drools over the evening star. But shows that he knows it is actually a planet revolving around the sun. It does not spoil his sense of beauty. Thus he refuted his own spiel.

So this theist snarl that living life without the God - delusion somehow lessens and spoils our experience is wrong, but they will never know that until or unless they do it.

[1213]

...
Atheism, at least, offers an escape from an eternity of boredom.

I don't know how would life be meaningless if one is omnipotent, but, how is atheism not boring? Isn't it just lack of belief, nothing really?

[TRANSPONDER]

...
Atheism, at least, offers an escape from an eternity of boredom.

I don't know how would life be meaningless if one is omnipotent, but, how is atheism not boring? Isn't it just lack of belief, nothing really?

That wasn't it. It is the human life that would become boring if eternal. Especially if it was an eternity of praising God alway. That could become a bot tedious after the first ten billion years (cue: God gives your brain a permanent high). And then the persistent mistake the theists make - they confuse atheism with an alternative religion, lifestyle and philosophy - when they know it is just not buying the god -claim. I know - they cannot imagine a worthwhile life without Godfaith. Well, there is one, whether they believe it or not.

Let's try this analogy or explanation.

"God makes Christians behave good."
"Ha! Christians only behave well because they want to get to heaven."
"Not true! Christians behave well because it's the right thing to do, not just to get to heaven!"
"Then that's what atheists do, too."

The same argument applies to life, not just morality. We goddless have the same values, appreciation and meanings in life as the Believers. We just don't add a godfaith to all that. "But it has no meaning or value if you are going to die at the end of it!"

But does not dying ..well, not permanently...really add meaning or value just to perpetuate what we do forever? Like it was said - it could become very boring and where is the meaning and value then? Is it not just fear of death and nothing more than that? Aside terror of hellthreat which I am delighted to say has NEVER been a worry for me.

[boatsnguitars]

...
Atheism, at least, offers an escape from an eternity of boredom.

I don't know how would life be meaningless if one is omnipotent, but, how is atheism not boring? Isn't it just lack of belief, nothing really?

If you could do anything, and have eternity to do it, you've done it all. There is nothing new - ever.

At least - with mortality - we have to decide what we do, and know we only have a short time to do it.

It's like the difference between watching your favorite artist perform live and listening to the same record over and over and over.,... again. For eternity.
Live, you don't know what will happen. Omnipotent, you know everything already. You will never be curious, never surprised, never lost in wonder.

The only thing someone with omnipotence and eternal life can ever long for is death. There is nothing else to want.