The speech of the upright!

[Bobcat]

Scripture says the words of the upright deliver them so Jesus’ was not needed for forgiveness of sin.

His death and resurrection were not to save anyone. It was His example of servitude to the Father that was needed so that those who continue in His teaching could be saved.

Jesus agrees with scripture that the words of the upright deliver them when He said;

“By your words you’ll be justified and by your words you’ll be condemned.”

“The words of the wicked are a deadly ambush, but the speech of the upright delivers them.”Proverbs 12:6

[JoeyKnothead]

[Replying to bjs1 in post #17]

If the words of the LORD are upright can’t we conclude that His words make the righteous person upright?

To answer this I would have to find one righteous person. That has yet to happen.

Which indicates we shouldn't trust folks who spout bible claims as truth.

Name one righteous person?

I'm uncertain how to interpret that question.

Are you implying you can name one, or are you asking me to name one?

Please name a righteous person for me.

Grandgirl 1, and grandgirl 2.

Wanna fight?

[bjs1]

[Replying to bjs1 in post #17]

If the words of the LORD are upright can’t we conclude that His words make the righteous person upright?

To answer this I would have to find one righteous person. That has yet to happen.

Which indicates we shouldn't trust folks who spout bible claims as truth.

This appears to be a non-sequitur. Can you explain your meaning?

If none are "righteous", then none can be trusted.

This would include that bunch who carry on about gods they can't show exist.

Ok, but then why did you single out those who spout biblical claims as truth? Wouldn’t this mean that those who question or doubt biblical claims are equally unreliable, both in words and in motivations? Your own ability to reason (just like mine) could not be completely reliable.

If you accept that none are righteous then an atheist is just as unreliable as a theist. If you don’t accept that belief then a theist is just a reliable as an atheist.

[JoeyKnothead]

If none are "righteous", then none can be trusted.

This would include that bunch who carry on about gods they can't show exist.

Ok, but then why did you single out those who spout biblical claims as truth? Wouldn’t this mean that those who question or doubt biblical claims are equally unreliable, both in words and in motivations? Your own ability to reason (just like mine) could not be completely reliable.

Now we've gone from "righteous" to "reasonable". Which term are we fussing about?

As "righteous" is a religiously loaded term, spouted most often by religious folks, I stand by my comment.

If you accept that none are righteous then an atheist is just as unreliable as a theist. If you don’t accept that belief then a theist is just a reliable as an atheist.

I never said I didnt think folks couldn't be righteous. I merely took a claim to a logical conclusion.

[Wootah]

Scripture says the words of the upright deliver them so Jesus’ was not needed for forgiveness of sin.

His death and resurrection were not to save anyone. It was His example of servitude to the Father that was needed so that those who continue in His teaching could be saved.

Jesus agrees with scripture that the words of the upright deliver them when He said;

“By your words you’ll be justified and by your words you’ll be condemned.”

“The words of the wicked are a deadly ambush, but the speech of the upright delivers them.”Proverbs 12:6

Matthew 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

and the bible says the gate is Jesus.

John 10 “Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2 The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5 But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.” 6 Jesus used this figure of speech, but the Pharisees did not understand what he was telling them.

7 Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. 9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[a] They will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

So we nead to enter through the narrow gate of Jesus.

[JoeyKnothead]

Scripture says the words of the upright deliver them so Jesus’ was not needed for forgiveness of sin.

His death and resurrection were not to save anyone. It was His example of servitude to the Father that was needed so that those who continue in His teaching could be saved.

Jesus agrees with scripture that the words of the upright deliver them when He said;

“By your words you’ll be justified and by your words you’ll be condemned.”

“The words of the wicked are a deadly ambush, but the speech of the upright delivers them.”Proverbs 12:6

Matthew 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

and the bible says the gate is Jesus.

John 10 “Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2 The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5 But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.” 6 Jesus used this figure of speech, but the Pharisees did not understand what he was telling them.

7 Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. 9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[a] They will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

So we nead to enter through the narrow gate of Jesus.

What religion worthy of the term wouldn't declare they're the path to the reward they promote?

[Bobcat]

Scripture says the words of the upright deliver them so Jesus’ was not needed for forgiveness of sin.

His death and resurrection were not to save anyone. It was His example of servitude to the Father that was needed so that those who continue in His teaching could be saved.

Jesus agrees with scripture that the words of the upright deliver them when He said;

“By your words you’ll be justified and by your words you’ll be condemned.”

“The words of the wicked are a deadly ambush, but the speech of the upright delivers them.”Proverbs 12:6

Matthew 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

and the bible says the gate is Jesus.

John 10 “Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2 The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5 But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.” 6 Jesus used this figure of speech, but the Pharisees did not understand what he was telling them.

7 Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. 9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[a] They will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

So we nead to enter through the narrow gate of Jesus.

No. The narrow gate is the son of man, the servant of God, whom Jesus was a part of.

[Tcg]

Scripture says the words of the upright deliver them so Jesus’ was not needed for forgiveness of sin.

His death and resurrection were not to save anyone. It was His example of servitude to the Father that was needed so that those who continue in His teaching could be saved.

Jesus agrees with scripture that the words of the upright deliver them when He said;

“By your words you’ll be justified and by your words you’ll be condemned.”

“The words of the wicked are a deadly ambush, but the speech of the upright delivers them.”Proverbs 12:6

Matthew 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

and the bible says the gate is Jesus.

John 10 “Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2 The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5 But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.” 6 Jesus used this figure of speech, but the Pharisees did not understand what he was telling them.

7 Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. 9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[a] They will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

So we nead to enter through the narrow gate of Jesus.

What religion worthy of the term wouldn't declare they're the path to the reward they promote?

Indeed. The odd thing is that this "narrow gate" leads to the most popular religion in the world. So much for consistency!


Tcg

[Wootah]

Scripture says the words of the upright deliver them so Jesus’ was not needed for forgiveness of sin.

His death and resurrection were not to save anyone. It was His example of servitude to the Father that was needed so that those who continue in His teaching could be saved.

Jesus agrees with scripture that the words of the upright deliver them when He said;

“By your words you’ll be justified and by your words you’ll be condemned.”

“The words of the wicked are a deadly ambush, but the speech of the upright delivers them.”Proverbs 12:6

Matthew 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

and the bible says the gate is Jesus.

John 10 “Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2 The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5 But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.” 6 Jesus used this figure of speech, but the Pharisees did not understand what he was telling them.

7 Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. 9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[a] They will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

So we nead to enter through the narrow gate of Jesus.

No. The narrow gate is the son of man, the servant of God, whom Jesus was a part of.

OK, you will have to detail your belief system to explain that to know what to say next.

[Bobcat]

[Replying to Wootah in post #38]

When Jesus said ; “If the son frees you, you’ll truly be free” He was saying that if your truly freed you will be the son because the son of God and son of man is the servant of God. Everyone must serve God in spirit and in truth.

“Genuine worshippers shall worship the Father in Spirit and in truth for it is just such worshippers the Father seeks for God is spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”

[Wootah]

[Replying to Wootah in post #38]

When Jesus said ; “If the son frees you, you’ll truly be free” He was saying that if your truly freed you will be the son because the son of God and son of man is the servant of God. Everyone must serve God in spirit and in truth.

“Genuine worshippers shall worship the Father in Spirit and in truth for it is just such worshippers the Father seeks for God is spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”

I think the words are simpler than that. If Jesus sets you free you are free indeed. How can you free yourself?