Is there proof or not?

[boatsnguitars]

Help me understand this.

Christians will claim they have ample evidence of the Holy Spirit, or God based on the feelings they get, or what they call evidence., or, "He'll prove himself to you when you believe.".

But, they also say God can't be tested for, and you can't prove God's existence because it would take away Free Will, or "God doesn't work that way".

These two ideas - that are probably mentioned a million times on this forum - are contradictory.

Can a Christian please explain, for once and for all, the rules on how God can be detected, but not proven, but proven and not detected, or whatever.

It makes no sense to me, but I'm an idiot, so maybe I don't get the simple logic.

[1213]

...Why none of the Madagancar fauna on the way via Africa? Deep time evolution accounts for that, but the Flood scenario doers not.

How "deep time evolution" explains it?

On explanation could be, they were eaten everywhere else.

But there is enough stuff to bury a T Rex, so why not an elephant? We also have T. Rex and giant sloth but not in the same layer. They were both huge. Why in separate strata if the deep time geology and evolution matching it is not true? And of course the layers of supposed filtered - out flood strata with all the size sorted fossil in is a lot thicker than an inch. And even if it was only an inch deep, this is in enough flood water to float the Ark. It would drown an elephant even if the sediment was not deep.The fossils that we have should be mingled, not stratified.

Massive flood could cause many different layers, depending on what it carried.

T Rex and elephant, if they lived in the same time period, would probably have lived in a different area, which is why not in the same layer.

[boatsnguitars]

So, you're saying like gravity and electricity, God has proven his existence - so I should be a Theist because it's so obvious?

For me it is so. I don't say anyone else has to believe the same way.

Why aren't I a Theist? Why isn't everyone a Theist and of the same religion?

I can't answer for others in this case, sorry.

Do you know anyone who denies the existence of electricity and gravity? Do you see the problem? There are people who, for them, think it's obvious that they are Napoleon reincarnated. You say, it's obvious to you that God exists. This is not how it works.

I can prove to you that electricity exists. Unplug your computer and see if you can use it. And if that doesn't convince you, we can go further, right down to testing the movement of electrons, how they are created, how they interact with the power unit in your computer, we can measure it, I can show you how the math proves it, etc.

I simply won't accept that you think the evidence for electricity is the same as for God - just because 'to you' it is.

[TRANSPONDER]

...Why none of the Madagancar fauna on the way via Africa? Deep time evolution accounts for that, but the Flood scenario doers not.

How "deep time evolution" explains it?

On explanation could be, they were eaten everywhere else.

As you say 'they were eaten everywhere else'. But the process takes time. With either evolution or Flood, lemurs and the like must have progressed through Africa to Madagascar. But when Madagascar became separated from Africa, they survived there as they didn't have effective predators. So they vanished in Africa but not on the island. In the same was Tasmanian tigers survived on Tasmania when they'd vanished in Australia

But there is enough stuff to bury a T Rex, so why not an elephant? We also have T. Rex and giant sloth but not in the same layer. They were both huge. Why in separate strata if the deep time geology and evolution matching it is not true? And of course the layers of supposed filtered - out flood strata with all the size sorted fossil in is a lot thicker than an inch. And even if it was only an inch deep, this is in enough flood water to float the Ark. It would drown an elephant even if the sediment was not deep.The fossils that we have should be mingled, not stratified.

Massive flood could cause many different layers, depending on what it carried.

T Rex and elephant, if they lived in the same time period, would probably have lived in a different area, which is why not in the same layer.

You mean why should they be in the same layer? Because the layers of the same time period can be identified not only by sequence but by radiometric dating. And the problem is that wherever elephants or indeed mammoths lived, formerly dinosaurs lived too. Wherever elephants or mammoths or mastodons or dimetrodons - all evolved version of the same clade, would have drowned, they should be in the same local layer as dinosaurs. Sorry, wherever you slice it, you cannot explain why animals who supposedly drowned in the same flood aren't found in the same strata.

As to strata, the experiments with flood - silt and rubble indeed separates into size of rubble, dirt and light silt, yes, but not into different types of rock - strata let alone not with different typesof animals sorted in what looks like evolutionary development. All the evidence supports evolution and geological time and not a global flood.

[The Spirit of Truth]

[Replying to brunumb in post #119]
So apparently you have no interest in learning the Truth, but only denying the Truth!!!
A picture is worth a thousand words! So, you never looked at my post!!! So you're afraid of the Truth!!!
Typical of deniers!!!

Screenshot_20220404-115909_Chrome.jpg

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to brunumb in post #119]
So apparently you have no interest in learning the Truth, but only denying the Truth!!!
A picture is worth a thousand words! So, you never looked at my post!!! So you're afraid of the Truth!!!
Typical of deniers!!!Screenshot_20220404-115909_Chrome.jpg

I had a look at all your posts and you said nothing other than appeal to Faith and a bit of scripture. You will have to do more to make a convincing case.

I suppose I have to say more with regard to your topic on 'realities of today'. This amounts to nothing new. Trouble has been going on for a long time and in fact conditions are better in health life and - yes - even war. They were ten a penny once and now you either need a very good reason for a war or religious leaders. Like the one who pushed the US into Iraq. Thus it is misleading as well as just too easy to pick bit of the Bible and claim that you can foretell the future. This is just not going to convince anyone who isn't already convinced. You can't blame anyone not bothering with it. We have just seen too much of that sort of stuff before.

[boatsnguitars]

[Replying to brunumb in post #119]
So apparently you have no interest in learning the Truth, but only denying the Truth!!!
A picture is worth a thousand words! So, you never looked at my post!!! So you're afraid of the Truth!!!
Typical of deniers!!!Screenshot_20220404-115909_Chrome.jpg

Are you a prophet?

[The Spirit of Truth]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #126]
Well, most want Revelation of Jesus Christ to be about other things; like the church etc...but it is about who Christ is in Spirit and as a person!
When Rev. Speaks of " she brought for a man child" many people say the "she" is the church or Israel....wrong!!! It is Revelation of Jesus Christ the person!
The Spirit of Truth whom the world cannot see, but you know him! John 14,15,16.
So if the Testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy and John and Isaiah confirm it! Then you have your answer!
So I have a class, an art class that deals with marines and ptsd. I will touch base tomorrow.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #126]
Well, most want Revelation of Jesus Christ to be about other things; like the church etc...but it is about who Christ is in Spirit and as a person!
When Rev. Speaks of " she brought for a man child" many people say the "she" is the church or Israel....wrong!!! It is Revelation of Jesus Christ the person!
The Spirit of Truth whom the world cannot see, but you know him! John 14,15,16.
So if the Testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy and John and Isaiah confirm it! Then you have your answer!
So I have a class, an art class that deals with marines and ptsd. I will touch base tomorrow.

I cancel so many posts including one just now with misgivings about letting Biblequoting prophets loose on the vulnerable. But the prophecy of Jesus in Isaiah is dubious, not to say debunkable, and I reckon John is not to be trusted any further than you can drag an overloaded dumpster, even when I thought he might be using an originally valid witness. Now I think he's making it up, for one thing, because none of the synoptics report the raising of Lazarus. It is is impossible to credit that all of them decided it wasn't worth mentioning.

Yes I'll go a bit further, as the topic is 'proof or not' rather than "Does claiming to be a born-again prophet make a poster some kind of Authority?"

I've mentioned before, this idea that IF one trusted the gospels as vaguely reliable testimony, then it still didn't support a resurrection from death.

I originally credited the story, at least up to the empty tomb (where coherence falls apart and Mark doesn't even bother) and i saw John as two writers - the Authentic voice of John with interminable sermons, hatred of Hebrews and fantastical claims, and an original eyewitness (the one John says we can trust) who wrote factual and believable (within limits) stuff about a wedding at Cana, a recruiting of disciples at the Jordan (before 'calling' them in Galilee ) a healing from back in Cana, the feeding of the men at Bethsaida (never mind about Matthew's women and children), an apparent secret trip to Jerusalem and ending up at the Jordan again, which is where Jesus gets the message that Lazarus is sick.

Hang on, I thought How does Mary know to send the note to Peraea? For the same reason Jesus waits two days so that Lazarus is good and dead before he arrives. After some acting for the crowds that followed him, Jesus summons forth Lazarus who hops out, is relieved of his bandages and entertains Jesus to supper.

Well, I thought, Lazarus didn't stinketheth, but the plot did. The whole thing was clearly set up as a fake miracle to impress the followers, whose support will be needed when Jesus rides (on a donkey tethered all ready...oh yes John let's that Miracleslip the leash ... ), because with 1000 Roman guards on duty at festival times (Josephus) you need some Galilean muscle if you want to go table -turning in the Temple.

That explained a knotty problem I'd had - why didn't the synoptics mention this stunning miracle?

Why do you think, "spirit of truth?" Why does nobody but John tell of the raising of Lazarus? Here's your chance to validate yourself, you Bible and your Faith. Let's hear your explanation ...before i continue.

p.s 'They wrote differently,back then' will Not Do. Nor 'They didn't think it important' and forget trying to appeal to mistranslation (1) . You have a biggie to give Proof for, here. Make or break.

(1)and I detect a basically Good Soul there, so you won't essay miserable evasions like: 'There is probably some good reason', 'It's in the Bible, so it must be true' or even the disgusting 'the wise are become fools' quotes.